Hit Factor Is Constant

[shred]

Like most of 'em, this insight came about just after I'd done it wrong (funny how that happens)

Say you're shooting a low hit-factor stage, (in this case a rifle stage with mostly 40-50 yard targets wherein the HF was about 4), and you come across a bank of wide-open targets at five yards.

Hose 'em, right? WRONG.

C's and dare I say it, D's, on those targets will cost you just as much as a C or D on every other target on the stage, and the time you might save by hosing is trivial if the HF is down in the 4 range like in the rifle example. Shooting a C instead of an A is the same as adding half a second to your time, and D's cost a full second each.

Keep it in mind. Get the A's. Guaranteed.

(the math whizzes will realize I used minor scoring above, but the concept remains the same)

[wide45]

Voigt told us you've got to shoot A's on the close easy targets. It will happen fast, because they are close and easy.

[Flexmoney]

shred,

That is a great point. One that we all need to remember. If the hf is low...tough targets...easy targets...they all need their Alphas!

(I hope this point sinks in.)

[spook]

Great posts. I know so many guys that say: on this stage, time is important. And on that stage, points are important. But it is always the same! Shoot A's,........ as fast as you can. If you shoot all A's and you do it as fast as you can, there's no way you could have done it better. Not by rushing and not by getting more points. It is that simple, right?

[Flexmoney]

It is that simple, right?

Well...

Not always.

Just as long as we remember it is points per second.

On the really fast stages (high hit factors), a quick Charlie can be better than taking the time to get the Alpha. (you can except a bit less visually)

What shred is talking about is a stage that takes a while to shoot...a low hit factor stage. And...that stage has an array of targets that are close and easy. He is saying that the shooter better make sure to get the points on the quick easy array...they score just as well as the tough targets. It is worth whatever time it might take to shoot Alphas instead of Charlies here.

(Does that make sense?)

[spook]

Flex, I've been thinking about this today. First I thought: You should shoot as fast as possible, while calling all your shots A's, but that's bull, 'cause if you call it an A, it should be an A, right.

But still I think it's as close as you can get with a simple rule.

I found it difficult to define in words going for the A but hitting the C, in a sort of pre planned setting. How do you know how fast you can be. How can you define visual acceptability. You call your shots, but you all ways shoot to shoot A's.

Damn, I swear I never touch the stuff, but reading through this......I seems like I was drunk when I wrote this

[shred]

Extreme hit factors dictate adjustments to the "Hit A's as fast as you can" policy.

Here's an example: A simple stage with one target at 7 yards. Draw and shoot 6 shots. Your typical Bill Drill. Say 2 seconds, all A's (30 pts) is a good run. That's a 15 HF. At 15 HF, every C you drop is equivalent to adding 0.067 seconds to your time. So, if it takes you longer than 0.07 seconds to guarantee an A, take the C.

Now we change the stage a bit. Now you have to move a gallon of water from one bucket to another with a dixie cup before you can draw. Say that takes 13 seconds. Add 2 seconds for the shooting and it's a 30 point 15 second stage with a 2 HF. At 2 HF, every C costs you 0.5 seconds. You'd better not be dropping points if you want to win this one.

[Loves2Shoot]

Go for A's accept C's and make-up D's

Remember folks the scoring is simple points/time = HF

If there aren't a lot of points to start off with, you better get most all of them.

IE.

El Pres

60 points (all A's) in 6 Seconds = HF 10

55 point (7 A's and 5 C's) in 5.5 seconds = HF 10

If you can take the extra .5 and get all A's (.04 per shot) everytime or go .5 faster and occasionally get a miss or D's which would you do?

Field course worth 130 points

130 points in 15 seconds (all A's) = HF 8.6666

120 points in 13 seconds (A's and 10 c's) HF 9.2308

On longer courses of fire where you can engage targets on the move you can afford to accept a few C's if you can gain some time by taking shots that are harder to call (shooting on the move) then it isn't worth the time to get "All A's"

[Flexmoney]

Flex, I've been thinking about this today. First I thought: You should shoot as fast as possible, while calling all your shots A's, but that's bull, 'cause if you call it an A, it should be an A, right.

Right.

How can you define visual acceptability.

That is where you have to look at the hit factor that you will likely end up with on this stage. (Shred's example is great.)

Like L2S mentions...it is points per second, not who can shoot Alphas the fastest.

I'll sometimes subtract out my likely draw and reload times...to see where my transitions and splits ought to be. But, as shred points out, it doesn't really matter....'cause the hit factor is constant.

L2S's Go for A's accept C's and make-up D's is a pretty good rule of thumb if you are shooting Major. (If you want to be limited by any type of rule...then that is what I would use.)

[skeeter]

it's a matter of level, a grand master needs to get all the points he can get because all the other gm's are going just as fast so the most points wins. but for the rest of us speed wins.

take L2S field courseand add 5 more C's

115 in 12 second HF 9.5833

say he throws it into overdrive and gets a miss

120 - 10=110 in 11 seconds HF 10.000

i've had stages where i've not tried to make long shoots and take the miss's. i almost never shoot dissappering targets. this has won me a stage or two in the past.

[Flexmoney]

Misses cost 15 points...minus 10 for the penalty, and losing 5 for not getting any points for the hit (possible Alpha).

Disappearing targets only cost you the hit points...no penalties for the mikes. So, if you skip a disappearing target...you skip the ten points that were waiting for you on that target (two possible Alphas).

You need to have a pretty high hit factor to make it worth not making up a mike. If you make up the mike with an Alpha...you have gained 15 points. Even with a 15 hit factor, you would have a full second to make it up and still be ahead.

With the lower hit factors (like the 4hf that shred mentioned), it really makes the Alphas stand out. With each shot being worth up to 5 points...a 4 hf gives you 1.25 seconds to make the Alpha shot.

Now...it really doesn't matter what the winning hit factor on a stage will be. The only thing that is important is what each individual's hit factor will be. But, it is good to know that if the top shooters are only getting a 4hf, that likely means there is lots of time being spent doing things other than shooting (moving, drawing, reloading, wierd position, etc.). So, with the lower hit factor stages...make those hits count.

To really make this analysis effective, a shooter should know what their split and transition times are on targets with various levels of difficulty. Know the times for shooting all Alphas...and compare to the times with shooting Charlies.

[Loves2Shoot]

Skeeter,

If you throw a miss and don't make it up you didn't call your shot. The only way to effectively make up shots is to know you missed your target immediately in the first place. The great shooters generally shoot all the targets, they seldom skip targets for time.

[skeeter]

i'm not talking about a shoot that i didn't call i'm talking about not trying for the shoot.

here's the stage i'm talking about . feild course that has 23 targets all real close in side of 10 yards in a long row. you start on the left and work your way down to the end. where they have a barrel, you most pass the barrel then engage a head shoot 25 yards down range surrounded by no shoots you either get the hit or hit the no shoots. most ran up range then shoot or take a lot of time from 25. i just put a shoot in to the brem next to the target so i woulded get a failure to engage. and took the miss's i was over 4 seconds faster the anyone else. i'll make up miss in all other case's

flex, you're right i forgot. 120-15=105 11 seconds HF 9.5454 he still wins.

[Loves2Shoot]

Skeeter,

If it was 1 shot and you can't make the shot in 2 seconds then it might be worth it. If you have to take 2 shots, then you can take 4 seconds for the shots. For me splits @ 25 are .75-.85 and a transition of 3 yards is 1-1.15 so for me I would even think about not shooting them, but if you can't shoot headshots @ 25 yards, you are probably better off skipping them, and going to the range and learning how to shoot accurately.

[AikiDale]

All this arithmetic was making my head hurt. Shooting limited I could just not figure out where to mount the calculator on my pistol and get away with it. Maybe built into the heads up display cleverly hidden inside my shooting glasses. And even if I could do the math in my head, how long does it take to decide if I can make up a shot in .02 or .2 seconds while in the middle of a string?

Skeeter had the answer:

"it's a matter of level, a grand master needs to get all the points he can get because all the other gm's are going just as fast so the most points wins...."

Thanks Skeeter! I'm just going to shoot like a GM and go for the points, much easier!

[skeeter]

i'm not saying it cann't be done, but to run 3 or 4 yards stop set up then get the shoots off. it just seemed faster to run then shoot with out stopping. i still say a fast c beats a slow A.

[shred]

It's pretty easy to spot high or low HF stages--

Lots of shots real fast = High HF.

Lots of dinking around, slow shooting = Low HF.

[Loves2Shoot]

i still say a fast c beats a slow A.

It depends on your level of shooting I'd guess. .16 is about as fast as I can shoot my blasters. I can shoot A's all day long at .2 out to 25 yards.

Example at 25yards

10 c's at .16 = 1.6 seconds 40/1.6 HF 25 (all it takes is 1 D or mike and then you HF is toast)

10 a's at .2 = 2 seconds 50/2 HF 25

The disaster factor at .16 splits is much higher also. But if you think you can do better by shooting c's, go for it.

[skeeter]

agian i'm not trying to shoot C's but if you shoot as fast as you can you'll get C's. i shoot 80 to 90% of A's but i'm not going to make up C's. splits are a small part of the over all time on a stage. movement, transitions and stradegy make up most of the time.

[Loves2Shoot]

Ahh that makes more sense.

When you said shoot fast C's over slow A's it didn't make sense to me since the time to shoot a C versus an A is nearly the same, and the crash factor negates any real benefit.

Shoot A's, Accept C's and Makeup D's (one of my mantras)

A lot of people that shoot C's don't know where they heck they hit untill they walk up to the target. I found I actually shoot faster if I "see" everything. Not a perfect sight picture on each shot, but enough of one to know where I am going to hit. My times are right in there and my if I drop more than a few (with the exception of movers) then I didn't stay focused. I so so many newer shooters hosing targets at 3-7 yards and getting misses and they simply don't understand it only take a fraction of a second more to actually see you shots. VISUAL PATIENCE, without it you are really limiting your capacity for improvement.

[benos]

Here's an example: A simple stage with one target at 7 yards. Draw and shoot 6 shots. Your typical Bill Drill. Say 2 seconds, all A's (30 pts) is a good run. That's a 15 HF. At 15 HF, every C you drop is equivalent to adding 0.067 seconds to your time. So, if it takes you longer than 0.07 seconds to guarantee an A, take the C.

shred,

I don't feel that's the most beneficial perspetive.

Try thinking of it like - .07 seconds is plenty of time to do what needs to be done to hit the A box, as opposed to just hitting the C box.

be

[shred]

Hmm.. Good point. I'll have to ponder that...

0.07 seconds is the difference between a crankin .13 A-C split and a ho-hum .20 2-A split. End result is still the same.

In truth, 15 HF's are rare enough that you're probably winning the stage if you're shooting that high.

Which only reinforces BE's point.. every other time, you have even more time to do what needs to be done to get an A.

[PaulW]

Another reason to shoot A's is if you settle for C's, then when you do screw up and yank the trigger, or when you don't quite follow through enough, you have a good chance to shoot D's. If your shooting for A's then when you screw up you be shooting C's.

[Nik Habicht]

And I'll throw in a last reason to shoot As. At the Summer Blast we had a stage called Tunnel Rats that had two shooting ports in a tunnel and two outside. Dave Olhasso, who won the stage shot it in 23 seconds. My fifth slowest 61 second (damn, I hate small spaces on my knees shooting) run came in at 47 % ----- because I shot the second highest number of points of any shooter on the stage. Only two of us broke 100 points on a 120 point stage. When I looked at it first thing in the morning my two concerns were: 1. Don't get DQ'd. 2. Your time is gonna suck --- ya gotta go for max points.

I can't shoot a 15 HF bill drill if you point a gun at my head ---- but I can shoot one that's all A's in a reasonable amount of time.

[Flexmoney]

Nik,

Good example.

http://www.lchico.5u.com/blast/blast-10.html

The hit factors in Production on that stage were all well under 4.

Here is a comparison of different results that ended up with a similar hit factor.

94 28.71 3.2741

112 35.20 3.1818