Movement, How soon to Explore?

[JimmyZip]

I was dryfiring tonight, Came back in the house and found several people on the forum discussing movement during a stage. They were discussing movement into and out of positions on a stage. My question is at what point do I start to study this stuff and practice it? Right now I've been dryfiring and practicing transitions ,draws, weak-hand and reloads, you know "gun" stuff. At what point do you start to look at the other stuff? Or can you start thinking about the other stuff right now?

[spook]

Have fun and experiment some. Movement is the biggest time saver in IPSC.

Try to find some good video material of top shooters and study it. Also, these forums contain good info if you do a search.

[Crusher]

At what point do you start to look at the other stuff?

As soon as you have the basics as most stages are won on the "other stuff" (provided the hits are there).

[Flexmoney]

I've found that, anytime I focus on one aspect (like leaving/setting up in a position) that that takes attention away from my other aspects of the game.

More to the point...anything that is taking up conscious thought uses up a lot of the minds attention capability.

Shot calling is more fundamental for me. I'd want to have that down solid, before I used up too much attention (and training resources) on other things.

If you get great hits...and know why...then I'd look at being more efficient in getting around the course of fire.

[Jake Di Vita]

I agree. Calling the shot is the absolute most important (and required) thing you can learn.

[Turbo23]

I agree. Calling the shot is the absolute most important (and required) thing you can learn.

I am by now stretch the caliber of those who posted just above me here. But I could not agree more.

I just wish that I had realized it SOONER....

[chirpy]

Any time is the right time if done properly. Check out Shooting USA "Pro Tips" and for videos of USPSA Nats etc. also Downrange.TV for videos of different USPSA club matches. Practice and enjoy.

[spook]

I've found that, anytime I focus on one aspect (like leaving/setting up in a position) that that takes attention away from my other aspects of the game.

More to the point...anything that is taking up conscious thought uses up a lot of the minds attention capability.

Shot calling is more fundamental for me. I'd want to have that down solid, before I used up too much attention (and training resources) on other things.

If you get great hits...and know why...then I'd look at being more efficient in getting around the course of fire.

I agree. Calling the shot is the absolute most important (and required) thing you can learn.

Are you guys suggesting you do the "stand still thing" until you can call shots? Or are you saying to just not focus too much on the mechanics of moving (entering/leaving) until you can call your shots?

Regardless of the answer, I have to disagree (respectfully of course ).

I agree that calling your shots is the most important fundamental of shooting, but developing that fundamental is also an everlasting road. I know great shooters who are still working on calling their shots. Even guys who won the World Shoot get caught throwing a shot without calling it.

So, there is no point at which you can go: "OK, I know how to shoot now, let's move on to the other stuff".

IMO, develop a complete game and work from there.

[Flexmoney]

Not trying to "be right" here. There are plenty of ways to look at it. Just giving my perspective.

In my opinion, resources ought to go toward "getting great hits...and knowing why".

I'm a believer in building the foundation...one brick at a time. It's hard to split the attention over multiple skills.

[spook]

Not trying to "be right" here. There are plenty of ways to look at it. Just giving my perspective.

In my opinion, resources ought to go toward "getting great hits...and knowing why".

I'm a believer in building the foundation...one brick at a time. It's hard to split the attention over multiple skills.

Ditto on the "being right" thing.

I have always found a lot of fun in learning different things. Especially in Dry fire. On the range, I usually like to get out there and do one or two things, but in Dry Fire, I like to work on 5-6 things and mix them up from day to day.

This also connects to the comment I made in another thread about "going through the motions" in dry fire and not really learning anything because of that.

If you practice different things on different days, you will stay interested (at least that is my experience). And maybe even more important, you will look at your entire game instead of just focussing endlessly one or two aspects.

It is cool if you can do a .6 reload instead of a .7, but all the time you practiced in improving that .1s, you could have spent at something that is really your weakness. You could have improved your game by whole %s in overall match results.

Again, just my 2cts.

[AlamoShooter]

I was dryfiring tonight, Came back in the house and found several people on the forum discussing movement during a stage. They were discussing movement into and out of positions on a stage. My question is at what point do I start to study this stuff and practice it? Right now I've been dryfiring and practicing transitions ,draws, weak-hand and reloads, you know "gun" stuff. At what point do you start to look at the other stuff? Or can you start thinking about the other stuff right now?

Trying to answer your question direct. The point that you start to practice "other stuff" like movement is = before you do it live fire -Or so that it will help you do it safely. Fundamentals stay the same practicing movement is good.

You could use an opened door to act like the edge of a barricade , or a door way steeping through form the sides and even backing out of the door.

The Big Dogs are rite making the shot is the most important thing, but everything that is don in a match is worth practicing.

At least for slow learners like me Heck I practice more eye movement drills than any thing Else

Jamie

[Jake Di Vita]

What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you have TT movement skills, KC's speed, and Max's intelligence if you can't accurately call your shots.

[spook]

What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you have TT movement skills, KC's speed, and Max's intelligence if you can't accurately call your shots.

Doesn't that work the other way around too?

[Jake Di Vita]

Yeah absolutely, but the difference to me is that the ability to call your shots is what gives you the foundation to build everything else on.

[spook]

I agree with that.

But I still believe there's lots of room to do other stuff as you are developing your shot calling skills

[Ron Ankeny]

I have discussed the topic to death with some pretty decent shooters (as in GM caliber). I hate to drop names so let's just say one of our former L10 National Champs told me movement is an advanced skill and should be worked on after a person has mastered the fundamentals of shooting...say along about high A and Master class. A former World Champion told me movement is vital to "winning" and one should get after the movement skills hot and heavy as soon as they are getting decent hits...say along about B class.

From my personal experience, I have found the run of the mill C,B, class shooter can win stages locally by working on movement skills if they are fortunate enough not to be getting Mikes. Otherwise, they are just really good at leaving on a Delta-Mike, and arriving early enough to tank another target.

Jake and Flex are right. For the movement skills to pay off in spades, the shooter must be getting their hits and calling shots well enough to have a good idea of when to make one up. Spook is also right, if you can't move as you work your way up through the ranks, those who can move will be gobbling up the stage points. There is merit to both schools of thought.

Here's my take. The most basic movement skills should be put in place fairly early on. I am talking about skills like leaning a bit as you take the last shot to exit a box (Flex and Jake will be on this one), lifting a foot, getting the gun in front of your face coming into a position, shooting on the move even you are almost static, entering a position smoothly, etc. The rub comes in when we get the cart before the horse. You need a good foundation upon which to build, but I don't think that means an M card.

[dirtypool40]

What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you have TT movement skills, KC's speed, and Max's intelligence....

What about DP's insightful humor??

[Jake Di Vita]

My friend...that always matters.

[ChuckS]

What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if you have TT movement skills, KC's speed, and Max's intelligence....

What about DP's insightful humor??

Not to mention sense of balance...

[wide45]

Don't try to learn a little of everything at once. Pick one thing that you need to get down. Work with it until you come to a point where you are not making progress, then switch to working on something else. Make sure not to neglect practicing all your skills as part of your schedule. Come back to the things you have previously worked on, with a fresh mind, and you will be better able to improve.

[JimmyZip]

Thank you all of you for the insight and reality check. It was good to read the differences and the agreements. Weird thing is that you ALL made sense.

JZ

[Dustdevil21]

Thank you all of you for the insight and reality check. It was good to read the differences and the agreements. Weird thing is that you ALL made sense.

JZ

As with all information you have to filter out what it is you need. I bought the Matt Burkett Video set (I need to watch again), which gave me some new ideas, and straightned out some of my bad ones. The nice thing with video is you can go back and review those sections you need.

Just my .02 cents