PistolPete Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Here is the deal... My Dan Wesson 1911 just started acting up. We've modified it quite a bit and it was working perfectly last week but now it doesn't want to cooperate. When we took the gun out to get it ready to fire the firing pin block fell off. We inspected the spring and noticed it was junk. It had been compressed so badly that it was too short. Not a problem. We replaced the spring with a new one. Then after about 6 rounds the gun jammed. It wouldn't go into battery and wouldn't load the round into the chamber. We all figured it was possibly from the firing pin having a burr on it and that causing the gun to lock up. But, when we took the gun and just tried cycling a few rounds thru it the gun was still not feeding properly. Do you think this could still be the problem or do you have any suggestions on where else to look? Thanks in advance, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 ANYONE??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Can you tell more about how it's jamming? Is it just failing to go into battery, or is it actually stuck so the slide won't move in either direction? Is brass caught? If there is a round partially in the chamber, is it nose "up" or "down"? It's tough to even guess at the cause of such things without seeing it happen, so as much info as possible would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Pete, First things first - CLEAN IT!! Everytime I start to have a problem, I can usually attribute it to the gun being dirty - especially if I have my head somewhre it is not intended to go and decide to "tinker" with it at the range . BTW, the range is outdoors w/ lots of dirt So before getting to far into it, clean it real good. Like you would when you first get it. Now, for my 2 pennies: Sounds like it is a Series 80 gun. Check w/ the 'smith and see if you can convert it to a Series 70 config. Fewer parts = less to go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I'd suggest case checking the ammo your trying to run. On one occasion, I accidentally loaded 45 Colt bullets into a 45acp case, they would not feed. Secondly, I'd suggest checking your extractor, it might too tight. I use very little extractor tension and it feeds perfectly. What kind of ammo do you use? Factory? Reloads? I'm no expert or a gunsmith, but if your firing pin stop falls out on it's own, then you might want to have another one put in there that is tight. One more suggestion, with 45acp, I've noticed that if the cases are bulged (even slightly) it will really give you trouble with feeding. I bought me a Lee Factory Crimp Die and it works wonders and really gives you factory spec ammo. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted May 28, 2003 Author Share Posted May 28, 2003 Thanks for everyones help. I'm currently using factory ammo. This is the same ammo I've used since I've owned the gun. The gun is jamming with the head of the bullet partially in the barrel. It is about 2/3 of the bullet inside the barrel. The extractor in the gun is brand new as we recently replaced it for an aftermarket piece. The gun was cleaned before we fired it. We did tinker with the slide a bit while trying to fit a new barrel and I'm just hoping that isn't the problem. All we did with the slide though was smooth out some of the burrs on the underside and we had to put a 2 degree angle on the end of the slide for the new barrel with comp. This may be the problem. Any ideas? Thanks again, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 The extractor in the gun is brand new as we recently replaced it for an aftermarket piece. Ding Ding Ding!!!! Extractors need to be fitted and tuned to work properly. My suggestion: Undo everything done to the gun. See if it works. Then add the next part. See if it works.... Repeat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted May 28, 2003 Author Share Posted May 28, 2003 The gun worked fine after we originally installed the extractor. Now a week later it is acting up? Still think this is the problem? Hmmmmmmm Could be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I had an STI extractor which was tuned become so loose over a couple hundred rounds that the gun would not function, so they DO go out of tune, I've seen it happen. look VERY hard at your extractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Just confused as usual, did you install a new barrel? What other mods within say 100 rounds of the problem? Just tryin to get an idea of whats up, forgive me if i'm a little slow on the uptake... Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 It sounds like the other guys are on the right track. I'll just repeat something a wise pistolsmith told me years ago: "Whenever you have a previously reliable gun suddenly start puking on you, the first question you should always yourself is, 'What did I change?'" So figure out what you changed. And, I have to ask, if the gun was working to start with, why did you change it? No offense - seriously - but every time I get a gun that works great, I find myself seriously disinclined to dink with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted May 29, 2003 Author Share Posted May 29, 2003 The reason I changed a working gun was to improve it for competition purposes. I want to make the gun faster and more accurate. We haven't installed the new barrel yet. We are still trying to fit it to the gun. I'll check the extractor since everyone seems to lean towards that. I guess it is possible that it could loosen up. Thanks again, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 More than likely, your extractor is tooooo tight. I bought a $15 El cheapo stainless extractor from Brownells, deburred and polished the head and tuned it up. No problems whatsoever. You might also want to check out Kuhnhaussens (Pardon the spelling) Book on the 45, you will get tons of info and it has a huge troubleshooting section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Ahhh... man's eternal quest to improve on the improved and tinker with the one most easiest to tinker with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Pete, In case you overlooked this in the other thread I'm posting it again... If you’re really serious about doing this kind of thing then go to http://www.gunbooks.com/catalog.html and buy Kuhnhausen Gunsmithing & Gun Repair Books Volumes 1&2. They’ll answer ALL of your questions. I just ordered both of those AND the video. Good luck, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 "I wanted to make it more accurate and faster." And therein lies the problem. Unless it was tossing bullets sideways, I doubt it was inaccurate enough to matter to any but a Master or GM. In my 1911 book, my big mouth got me into a test program; to fire all the pistols sandbagged prone at 50 yards. Every single one of them, including some real cheap ones, kept all their shots in the A zone at 50 yards. Return it to original status, with original parts, and start over. And when you do fail to resist temptation in the future, change one thing at a time, test and verify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted May 30, 2003 Author Share Posted May 30, 2003 Well when we did most of the work we didn't have any problems at all. The gun worked flawlessly. Since we started to fit the new barrel that is when the problems started. We had everything set except the barrel and the gun was amazing. Then we tinkered with the barrel and now the gun doesn't want to work. HEHE I'm not too concerned as I know we'll get the gun tuned but like a car the tuning may take some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Well when we did most of the work we didn't have any problems at all. The gun worked flawlessly. Since we started to fit the new barrel that is when the problems started. We had everything set except the barrel and the gun was amazing. Then we tinkered with the barrel and now the gun doesn't want to work. HEHE I'm not too concerned as I know we'll get the gun tuned but like a car the tuning may take some time. Okay, I know that for some people messing with the gun is half the fun. You can always tell these people. They're the ones who can't make it through a stage without the gun choking. Seriously, man, fitting a barrel to a 1911 is not a job for a beginner. It's a job for an experienced, skilled pistolsmith who knows what he's doing - and there are few enough of those out there. Please don't take offense, but if you can't diagnose a tight extractor, fitting a barrel is totally off the scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bulm5 Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 ditto on that one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 PistolPete, I am quite handy at doing many things. I can build a room, wire a house, do most plumbing, have built and restored many motorcycles, and fix all kinds of things. That being said, I have done much of the work on some of my 1911s. I know every part, where they go, and can take them down to bare frame and slide in no time, and reassemble them, making little changes as needed. I have owned and fired LOTS of 1911s over about 40 years. My gunsmith (who I am quite happy to say is local, but a Master Gunsmith, and a very good friend) has told me on no uncertain terms, that if I EVER try to fit a barrel (again), change the angle of a feedramp (again), or tighten a slide (again), to NOT bring it to him (again) to make run correctly after I "fix" it!!! Get my drift? For having so very few parts, a 1911 is extremely complex in the interaction of the various components. One must be really knowledgeable to make everything run really "slick". I know that a good gunsmith's time appears expensive. However, it REALLY is a bargain. Get it set up correctly ONCE, and DON'T TINKER with it. I apologize if I am sounding like a "know-it-all" on this topic, but I have learned quite painfully over the years what my limitations are in the 1911 venue. HOWEVER, once in a while, I figure that if I just make this LITTLE adjustment on my own............. H-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m lets see, and change this................. THEN it is off to my gunsmith with my 1911 in one hand and my - - - - in my other hand, having to humble myself to get him to correct my "fixes". I don't like to admit my shortcomings, but if it will help you........... Best, Jeffro (Jeff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Here's the dirty secret of gunsmiths: We've all experimented more than our fair share of firearms into scrap. I personally have caused the demise of not less than three 1911 pistols, not to forget another four or five slides, a dozen barrels and several pounds of internal parts. And then there are the other models...... Your gunsmith has probably done the same, and what you are paying him for is the use of that knowledge, without having to bear the full cost of scrapping all those experimental pistols yourself. To paraphrase Churchill, "There is noting more expensive than a second-rate military, and home gunmithing for those with more enthusiasm than caution." That said, everyone should do as much of their own work as they can, if for no other reasons than to satisfy their curiosity and appreciate the skill of the pro gunsmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted May 30, 2003 Author Share Posted May 30, 2003 I'm not the one doing the work. My buddy who built many 1911's is the one building the gun. I haven't been there in a few days while he's been working on the gun. I was just looking for some input for myself. He knows what he is doing and what is wrong with the gun but I'm looking to gain some knowledge of how this all works. I'm new to this game (only a few years) so I wanted to see what everyone here has for input. I appreciate all your help. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted June 4, 2003 Author Share Posted June 4, 2003 UPDATE: Here is the update. We were able to fit the barrel and comp to the gun and cycle dummy rounds thru the gun without any problems. When we got to the range and tested the gun it was jamming but now it was totally different. We tested a few different recoil springs but the prob. was still the same. What is happening is the slide isn't going back far enough to eject the spent case. WE tried a few different loads and it would work sometimes but hang up about 60% of the time. It looks as if the slide is hitting the new hammer just a bit too much. This is where the slide is stopping. So we're going to shave it down a hair and see if that helps. The other problem we noticed is the stock barrel bushing pin wasn't tight and was actually sticking out a bit. We have new pins and are going to change it and test it again tomorrow. Anyone have any ideas what else the problem could be? Would a comp. make such an effect on the gun that it wouldn't have enough pressure to cycle the slide? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 When we got to the range and tested the gun it was jamming but now it was totally different. What a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 The barrel link is likely too short and it is trapping the slide between the barrel and the frame. The barrel should stop it's rearward travel when it impacts the frame and not when it reaches the end of the link. A quick test is to hold the gun in one hand and press the muzzle into a table top until the barrel is completely rearward. Then attempt to cycle the slide while holding pressure on the barrel. If you feel the slide dragging on the barrel, your link is too short or you have clearance problems between the slide and barrel. Get someone with experience to fix the job before you end up with expensive scrap metal. Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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