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Titegroup In .45 Acp


paraman1

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How much TG are you guys using to make major with a 200gr. bullet . I am using the West Coast 200gr. RN bullet with federal lg. pistol primers . I dont have access to a chrono so I need a good starting point .

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Paraman,

With some bullets, you can go with published data and be certain of results. The 200 gr L-SWC is a case in point. You can be sure if you load it to the correct length (which is easy to determine) and use 5.8 of WW-231 (or other data) you will be "in like flynn."

However, the 200 gr roundnose isn't such a bullet. Minor differences in oal will make big differences in velocity. And you may not have a choice of oal, your pistol may tell you what it will accept.

You simply must get, or get access to, a choronograph for testing.

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I have been toying with the 200 LSWC but they do not seem to feed reliably and when I shoot facing into the sun the cloud of smoke starts to obscure my targets (thats my excuse and I am sticking to it) as well as the filth shooting lead leaves behind in my pistol . I tried the Laser-cast 200 grn. RN and like them a lot but would rather shoot a jacketed bullet . I was using Clays with the lead but the loads guys are using to make major with makes me a little nervous . I have TG left over from when I shot a .40 in limited so I thought I would use it and see how it goes . I can chrono it when I go to a match by having someone bring there chrono but dont want to get there and have to shoot 5 different loads to find out which makes major .

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True... you need to chrono your own equipment. There are too many variables (gun, barrel, OAL, temp, etc). But just to throw some numbers around I use 4.4 TG under a 200gr D&J LEAD bullet OR 4.8 TG under a Montana Gold Jacketed bullet. I've chrono'ed them with my STI single stack, Springfield and Kimber. All made major with a little cushion (170PF).

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The latest pound of TG I've procured needed a charge of 5.0gr under a 200gr MG bullet to produce 169PF.

It's a dirty load. LOts of brown residue around the muzzle. A magnum or rifle primer might cure that though....

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Which part Duane, the velocity/charge weight, or the dirtiness.

I'd expect your lead Laser-Casts to go faster per grain.....but your saying it's relatively clean?

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I was thinking both, but wasn't factoring in the fact you're shooting plated bullets which should be a bit slower. Yeah, TG's been really clean for me. I once put almost 5,000 rounds through the gun without cleaning, just to see if I could. The gun was still smooth when I finally broke down and cleaned the thing. Of course, I think the Slide-Glide helped in that regard.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Been a while since the last post but I finally got around to shooting the loads I put together . 5.0gr. of TG with a 200 gr. west coast RN plated bullet . The load shoots nice but it is fiiiillllthy . I wound up wearing a layer of black ash after shooting 160 rounds in a fun match . My pistol is caked with crud around the barrel hood and ejection port as well as my mags being filled with this junk . The guys picking up brass said my brass was extremely hot (Like .38 stupor hot) and it was still hot when they gave it to me to put in my brass bag . I also noticed my pistol was quite warm to the touch . Is this normal ?? There were no signs of pressure on the primers and the brass was black down one side like the pressure was building slowly and leaking around the side of the case like a low pressure load would do . Any guesses ??

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PARAMAN: My experience exactly; dirty & that is why I dropped it. Duane has had better luck as far as cleanliness & I agree w. Duane that the mark on one side of the case is nothing to worry about if you choose to shoot Titegroup in .45. On the plus side, it is amazing to me that one uses such a small amount of titegroup in .45 and yet it is accurate & consistent - it really is very insensitive to position in the case.

As for a cleaner powder, I stuck w. Clays under 200 westcoast SWCs or RNs (the latter loaded to 1.260" OAL) over 4.5 to 4.6 grns for about 169PF - NOTE: double check this load w/ the Hodgdon manual and NEVER excede the listed Max as published in the load book. Always start at least 10% below the recommneded charge and work up carefully checking for any sign of pressure.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi Parama 1,

I am using exectly your setup, 200grn west coast RN CMJ, Titegroup Powder, Winchester Case, CCI 300/ Winchester Primer. The pistols that I and my wife used are Valtro 1998A1(two of them). I used 5.12 grn titegroup and it gives me 844fts ave. in my own and 847fts ave. in my wife's valtro and it varies +/- 8fts.. Overall length is between 1.270 to 1.275( my magazines allow me to load at max. overall lenght).

To measure that precision of .12grn. of powder. I measure 10 measure drop all together(51.2grn). And make sure I get three consistance 51.2grn before I start loading. This method was learned in Physics class.

*This only my own loaded and posed as a reference. Always work up your own load and be responsable on your own reloading.*

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I tried titegroup and found 5.1 grains under a 200 grain west coast FLM-RN gave me 166.7 PF out of my 5" STI .45. OAL was 1.250" and I was using federal large pistol primers. All without getting better than a "B" in physics class!! :D

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If it helps any, I also came up with the following for making around 165 power factor (give or take) when using a 200 grain west coast bullet and the same parameters:

5.9gr W231

9.3 Blue Dot

5.1 WST

4.5 Clays

Like Clays the best, and maybe WST second best. ;)

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest Larry Cazes

Paraman.....I too found TG to be very dirty with lots of flash for .45acp. I went to clays for 230gr RNs and WST for 200 gr RNs and have never looked back. As I finish my last few pounds of clays, I will switch to WST and use it for both weights. After a few years of experiementing I have found WST to be the best overall powder for .45 Give it a try you just might agree.

Larry

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  • 7 years later...

I thought I would add some data to help the next person that searches: 230 Tite Group

.45 ACP 230 BBI

4.3 Tite Group

1.250"

166 PF (725fps)

.45ACP 230 BBI

4.3 Tite Group

1.225"

173 PF (755fps)

.45ACP 230 BBI

4.3 Tite Group

1.200"

179 PF (782fps)

5" 1911 @ 23F

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in colder weather (~45-50 degrees) i was getting right at 850 FPS (170PF) with a 200gr Precision SWC. as it got warmer, ~85-90 degrees, it bumped up to ~173PF.

Im currently at 4.8 gr of titegroup right now with the 200gr bullet.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I shoot 4.9gr of Titegroup behind a 200gr. Bayou Bullets coated LSWC.

I'm loading at 1.255-1.260" overall length with a .469" crimp

Out of my STI Spartan 1911 I get aprox 865fps in warmer weather and 850 fps in colder weather. In warmer weather major PF is acheiveable with only 4.8gr. I add the extra tenth of a grain to give me confidence I will pass the chrony at anytime.

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in colder weather (~45-50 degrees) i was getting right at 850 FPS (170PF) with a 200gr Precision SWC. as it got warmer, ~85-90 degrees, it bumped up to ~173PF.

Im currently at 4.8 gr of titegroup right now with the 200gr bullet.

Is that with a lead or jacketed bullet?

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in colder weather (~45-50 degrees) i was getting right at 850 FPS (170PF) with a 200gr Precision SWC. as it got warmer, ~85-90 degrees, it bumped up to ~173PF.

Im currently at 4.8 gr of titegroup right now with the 200gr bullet.

Is that with a lead or jacketed bullet?

That is with the Precision coated lead bullets.

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