AikiDale Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 recommended). So, it does not say how many rounds are allowed in the gun at the start. It only states a "maximum of 10 rounds loaded in any magazine AFTER THE START SIGNAL." How do you guys read this? Is it a 10 +1? Is is a 9 +1? Or is it a start with as many as you can stuff in the gun? I believe it means you zero any stage the RO counts more than 11 shots between mag changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 If there is 10 in the magazine at the start signal and it's a loaded gun start it would be 10+1. If it's an unloaded gun start it would just be the 10 in the mag. Agreed, but it clearly states about after the start signal, but does not clearly state about AT the start signal. This is BEYOND grey in my mind!!! recommended). So, it does not say how many rounds are allowed in the gun at the start. It only states a "maximum of 10 rounds loaded in any magazine AFTER THE START SIGNAL." How do you guys read this? Is it a 10 +1? Is is a 9 +1? Or is it a start with as many as you can stuff in the gun? I believe it means you zero any stage the RO counts more than 11 shots between mag changes. I got that about the penalties and procedurals, but it still does not address the start and how many rounds are in the magazine at the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 (edited) - Maximum of 10 rounds loaded in any magazine AFTER THE START SIGNAL. Jay, This means you may not have more than 10 rounds in a magazine after the start signal. Before the start signal you may have as many as you like. I would recommend 11 before the Make Ready command. With 11 in one magazine before the Make ready command you may, under the supervision of the RO, insert a magazine, rack the slide and holster. At this point you will have 10 rounds in the magazine so that after the start signal there will be no more than 10 rounds in the magazine. There will be one round in the chamber unless you did a half ass job of racking the slide, in which case you would have had more than 10 rounds in the magazine after the start signal and will zero the stage. Why is this so hard? Before the USPSA 2008 rule book one shooting in Limited 10 or Production Division was not allowed to have more than 10 rounds in a magazine. If a reasonable shooter, but one not versed in the pre 2008 rule, were to put 11 rounds in a magazine in order to prepare his gun for the "Load and Make Ready" command, thus putting his gun in the legal post start position of having one round in the chamber and 10 in the magazine, he would be penalized for violating the no more than 10 in a magazine rule. He was required to insert a magazine, rack the slide at LAMR, remove that magzine, commonly known as a "Barney" mag, and replace it with a properly charged 10 round magazine then holster in preparation for the start signal. In order to speed up the flow of the match a rule writing genius figured out that changing the wording of the rule from "no more than 10 in a magazine" to "no more than 10 in a magazine after the start signal" prevented the Barney mag ritual and a lot of ill will on the part of shooters who got dinged for a practice which technically violated the rule. Edited March 22, 2008 by AikiDale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Dale Thanks, I have never competed in L-10, so I did not know those rules. If read literally, you can see the reason for my question. It is certainly NOT clear. Maybe it should say, 10 +1 to start, and a limit of 10 in any magazine. OR... Maybe I should just shut the FU*K up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Before the USPSA 2008 rule book one shooting in Limited 10 or Production Division was not allowed to have more than 10 rounds in a magazine. If a reasonable shooter, but one not versed in the pre 2008 rule, were to put 11 rounds in a magazine in order to prepare his gun for the "Load and Make Ready" command, thus putting his gun in the legal post start position of having one round in the chamber and 10 in the magazine, he would be penalized for violating the no more than 10 in a magazine rule. He was required to insert a magazine, rack the slide at LAMR, remove that magzine, commonly known as a "Barney" mag, and replace it with a properly charged 10 round magazine then holster in preparation for the start signal. I don't think this was the case before the 2008 Rule book. I seem to remember there was a ruling or something that allowed you to have 11 in the mag to load with. I know that I've been shooting Production since 2005 and have always done it this way, including at several Nationals. I've also seen every guy I shoot Production with do it at those matches. I'm pretty sure it was legal before 2008. That said, good explanation of the rule. I really didn't think it was that hard to comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 DaleThanks, I have never competed in L-10, so I did not know those rules. If read literally, you can see the reason for my question. It is certainly NOT clear. Maybe it should say, 10 +1 to start, and a limit of 10 in any magazine. OR... Maybe I should just shut the FU*K up There really is no gray to that rule. The way you want it listed would not allow for unloaded gun starts or an 11 round mag to load from. Read it again and tell me how it is legal to have 11 rounds or more in a mag at any point after the start signal. Or how you would justify shooting the gun with more than 10 rounds in the mag. It's really a very clear rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 OK, I will just shut up now 10 + 1 it is. Essentially L-10 rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 I knew I shouldn't have used USPSA talk! The guns will indeed be loaded to 10+1 if the gun starts loaded...which will be the case for every stage. All additional magazines must be loaded with a maximum of 10 rounds each. It appears that this match has generated a lot of interest much faster than I anticipated. Get your applications in early! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccur Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Dear Supper Squad members I need all your apps with checks asap (someone give me a firm date on this ) All squad requests have to be in the same envelope, which I will provide If we get this done RIGHT AWAY, we can maybe pull off Saturday shooting!!! I count 9 of us already (counting Jared and Glenn Shelby, we can only do 12 ish) need 3 more brave souls to join us!! Sorry...pm me and I will give you my address!! Cheryl Supper Squad list 3/24.... Cheryl Rod Dale Jared Damon Rick Bob Jay Nancy Jim Carina Supper Squad has 11 Apps went out TODAY ( Monday...3/24) for Saturday shooting 1st choice...Sunday is 2nd choice...Friday is 3rd choice!! Can't wait!! Cheryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk4 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I'm curious what PF everyone is planning on shooting for this match. Since there is no PF, but the plates must be knocked over, and knocked over fast to shoot the one behind it on some stages. Is there any advantage in knock down power using a heavier bullet at the same PF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I'm no physicist but I believe heavier bullets give you more momentum which is the key to moving mass, so heavier bullets should be better for knocking down steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 (edited) Since I don't have a hi cap 9mm, and I shoot my single stack 45 better than anything else, I am planning on loading 185 bullets at around a 140-150 power factor with maybe an 11 pound recoil spring. Should be pretty light and flat, but still good for knocking down steel. At least I think Edited March 31, 2008 by fortyfiveshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Any PF that's 125,000 or better will work fine. It really comes down to what load your gun recovers faster with. I've been using 147gr 9mm at about 135PF with very good results. Saturday registrations are coming in almost as fast as Sundays, so don't delay. Get your applications in early! So far, all squad requests have been honored, but this will become much more difficult as time goes on. It's going to be a great match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 (edited) Greetings Pro-Am Competitors, The message is to let you know that your squadding requests and shooting day preferences have been honored, and you are all registered to shoot the 2008 Pro-Am at the US Shooting Academy! It's going to be a great match! More information will follow shortly. Dear Supper Squad members I need all your apps with checks asap (someone give me a firm date on this ) All squad requests have to be in the same envelope, which I will provide If we get this done RIGHT AWAY, we can maybe pull off Saturday shooting!!! I count 9 of us already (counting Jared and Glenn Shelby, we can only do 12 ish) need 3 more brave souls to join us!! Sorry...pm me and I will give you my address!! Cheryl Supper Squad list 3/24.... Cheryl Rod Dale Jared Damon Rick Bob Jay Nancy Jim Carina Supper Squad has 11 Apps went out TODAY ( Monday...3/24) for Saturday shooting 1st choice...Sunday is 2nd choice...Friday is 3rd choice!! Can't wait!! Cheryl Edited April 10, 2008 by AikiDale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Oh boy this is going to be fun I have to remember to pack my chicken and rattle snake But Jay may be on to the snake thing Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Oh boy this is going to be fun I have to remember to pack my chicken and rattle snake But Jay may be on to the snake thing Jim I don't mind the chicken, but please, NOT the snake, I hate snakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Just keep repeating to yourself Jay, "They taste like chicken. They taste like chicken...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I'm in, shootin' Sunday! Looks like a blast, gotta get the Springer 9mm 1911 tuned up and ready to roll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nm3gnr Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I am shooting Saturday. Gonna run my Edge in 40 loaded down some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted April 13, 2008 Author Share Posted April 13, 2008 SO FAR, everyone's squadding requests and shooting preferences have been met. There are only two free empty squads left on Sunday! DON"T DELAY!!! Saturday still looks pretty good, but I've got a feeling that it's going to fill quickly once Sunday is booked! Don't miss the chance to shoot a great match and have a great time! On another note, the IDPA classification has been changed a bit to make things more appealing. Master = A Expert = B S/S = C Marksman = D I'll make the changes on the web site this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysued Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 OK Guys, I'll be there, Lets get together and cause mischief!! I love the Barbecue at the Golden Saddle, I know, it sound more like a gay Bar than a restaurant, but the food is pretty good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted April 13, 2008 Author Share Posted April 13, 2008 (edited) Yamil, The best BBQ in the area is a little hole in the wall called LEGENDS. It's about 8 miles from the range...simply awesome! On another note, here is a list of the default Professionals that you could see at the 2008 Pro-Am: Robert J. Leatham Dave Sevigny Taran Butler Jerry Miculek Manny Bragg Angus Hobdel Doug Koenig Todd Jarrett Max Michel Travis Tomasie Mike Voight Chris Tilley Ted Puente Bob Vogel Matt Mink Mike Seeklander Henning Wallgren Blake J. Miguez Mark T. Hanish BJ Norris Bruce Piatt Saul Kirsch Daniel Horner Brad Balsley JoJo Vidanes JJ Racaza Matt McLearn KC Eusebio Michael Burrell Shannon Smith Benjamin Stoeger Tony Hawkins David Olhasso Robert Romero Rodney May Oh, yeah...and MAYBE Phil Strader...if he hasn't blown a gasket before the match starts! Although, Mike and I will not be shooting for score. I'm looking forward to the match...it's going to be a great one! Edited April 13, 2008 by gmshtr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysued Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Yamil,The best BBQ in the area is a little hole in the wall called LEGENDS. It's about 8 miles from the range...simply awesome! ! that sounds more like at Topless Bar than a BBQ Place!! All them Pros, this should be a great match to Photograph!! Can't wait!! Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Yamil,The best BBQ in the area is a little hole in the wall called LEGENDS. It's about 8 miles from the range...simply awesome! ! that sounds more like at Topless Bar than a BBQ Place!! All them Pros, this should be a great match to Photograph!! Can't wait!! Y Yamil, I am Shooting on Saturday. Can I hang out with you and annoy you to death with stupid questions about photographing shooters on Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Yamil,The best BBQ in the area is a little hole in the wall called LEGENDS. It's about 8 miles from the range...simply awesome! ! that sounds more like at Topless Bar than a BBQ Place!! You'd better stick to the gay bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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