rr4406pak Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) Hello all, Just bought a brand new 610 revolver from the S&W store in Springfield. I was there shooting the IDPA National Championships. The 610 was waiting for me when I got home. Took it out of the box and it functions normally when I pull the trigger (double action mode) with my right hand no problem (no matter how fast I go). When I use it in my left hand however the hammer functions fine but the cylinder does not turn!!! What the??? If I pull the trigger slowly it will turn the cylinder and fire. But when I fire it at medium to fast speeds the cylinder fails to move at all. What's going on here? Any ideas? Has anyone ever seen this? This thing needs to be 100% for the matches. I'm disappointed. Thanks. Edited February 29, 2008 by rr4406pak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighVelocity Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 That's very weird. Does it matter if you tilt the gun one way or another? Gary J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Hello all,Just bought a brand new 610 revolver from the S&W store in Springfield. I was there shooting the IDPA National Championships. The 610 was waiting for me when I got home. Took it out of the box and it functions normally when I pull the trigger (double action mode) with my right hand no problem (no matter how fast I go). When I use it in my left hand however the hammer functions fine but the cylinder does not turn!!! What the??? If I pull the trigger slowly it will turn the cylinder and fire. But when I fire it at medium to fast speeds the cylinder fails to move at all. What's going on here? Any ideas? Has anyone ever seen this? This thing needs to be 100% for the matches. I'm disappointed. Thanks. It might wear in and improve, but my guess is that the Hand is binding (probably against the side of the window) and when you shoot right handed you are pulling the trigger slop in a direction (sideways) that helps the situation and pull the other way (making the binding worse) when you shoot with the left hand. Said another way, the hand is probably hanging up on the side of the window so instead of coming through the window and engaging the star, it is sliding straight up without passing through the window. While you should work on pulling straight back in all cases, the gun should still function if you don't. With a new gun I would send it back and have S&W make it right. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4406pak Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 I just called S&W and they said they "never heard this one before". They mentioned that the "hand" was not engaging when I used my left hand and to adjust my trigger pull technique. I asked if they could adjust the clearances or something so this would not happen no matter how I pulled the trigger. They declined. Just my luck to get a brand new unreliable revolver... yay for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10mmdave Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I just called S&W and they said they "never heard this one before".They mentioned that the "hand" was not engaging when I used my left hand and to adjust my trigger pull technique. I asked if they could adjust the clearances or something so this would not happen no matter how I pulled the trigger. They declined. Just my luck to get a brand new unreliable revolver... yay for me... No friggin way ! ! ! call 'em back up and have them send you a return ship label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4406pak Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) No friggin way ! ! !call 'em back up and have them send you a return ship label. Yeah? What if I send it back to them... wait a month... they claim it works fine for them... I get it back and it still does the same thing? I'm inclined to forgo that pain and just take it to a local gunsmith who can smooth up the trigger (which I need done to shoot action pistol anyway) and fix the hand/window clearances at the same time. What do you think? Edited February 29, 2008 by rr4406pak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 No friggin way ! ! !call 'em back up and have them send you a return ship label. Yeah? What if I send it back to them... wait a month... they claim it works fine for them... I get it back and it still does the same thing? I'm inclined to forgo that pain and just take it to a local gunsmith who can smooth up the trigger (which I need done to shoot action pistol anyway) and fix the hand/window clearances at the same time. What do you think? That sound like a plan as long as the gunsmith can diagnos the problem, relay to Smith & W. so Maybe , just maybe "They" can fix the problem or stand good on the gunsmith's repair. ( Like maybe pay for the repair). That happens on recalls on autos. (Automobiles not the bottom feeders.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10mmdave Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 No friggin way ! ! !call 'em back up and have them send you a return ship label. Yeah? What if I send it back to them... wait a month... they claim it works fine for them... I get it back and it still does the same thing? I'm inclined to forgo that pain and just take it to a local gunsmith who can smooth up the trigger (which I need done to shoot action pistol anyway) and fix the hand/window clearances at the same time. What do you think? Being bran' spanking new I can't believe the S&W guy would tell you to change the way you shoot, (well ya, I can believe that !) My concern would be if anything else is wrong inside. (was it machined right ?) And I understand your reluctance to send it back to S&W, been there, done that, 4 trips I'm sure a gunsmith can fix you up in a hurry, but dang, that was big money wasn't it the poor guy should be able to start with a working gun I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 A year or so ago I bought a Smith 640 and from the very beginning it would sometimes lock up tight as a drum...as if the trigger lock mechanism was engaging. I sent it back to Smith and they fixed it and had it back to me within a reasonable timeframe....maybe 2 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kframe_mike Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 That sucks!The other thing that could be happening is a sloppy trigger to stud fit,meaning theres a lot of side to side play thats messing with the hand engagement.I know to get a good,consistant hand fit on my 625,my action guy had to shim the trigger with those little flat bushings on the stud.The hammer has them too.That should make pulling the sideplate off for cleaning kinda fun...lol.Issues like these with Smith's newer revolvers seem to be all to common,and I'm really loosing faith in their ability to fix them either.Sad but true,-Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) You may have a bent Trigger Pin, a smaller than normal boss, or a too tight/loose hand. It sounds like the trigger is being pushed too far to the right when it's in your left hand. And the Hand is binding somewhere as a result. Open the cylinder and hold the thumb release back and cycle the trigger. You can then see if the hand is coming thru the window. Squirt some Rem Oil into the window, see how much play it has. The hand must come thru the window freely. Do some testing and detail exactly what and when. Then send it back. When you get it back, post the results. You need to try the factory fix at least once. Unless you aren't scared of the internals, then open the thing up and take a look! Oh and between now and sending it back, dry fire the crap out of the thing. Good Luck! Edited February 29, 2008 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Well, swing by the house this evening and I'll fix it. I've got the parts we need and we can slick up the action while we're at it. I'll be home about 5:30pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4406pak Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 That is a mighty kind offer sir. With these gas prices by the time I got out there I'd have spent enough to buy another (non-functional) new one... Thanks for the offer though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 That is a mighty kind offer sir.With these gas prices by the time I got out there I'd have spent enough to buy another (non-functional) new one... Thanks for the offer though! 'tis true. I did do a tour in Romulus, (Seneca Army Depot) but I guess our timing was off enough that we missed each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Send it to Mike Carmoney. He will figure it out and do a great action job on it also. Turnaround time is excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sinko Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 How pathetic. More proof of the decline of S&W. A gun like that never should've made it out the door. And they just don't care. May as well pay a good gunsmith to get it running right. I wouldn't send it back to S&W, especially in light of the response they gave you. Dave Sinko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 S&W probably figures that the Left Handed population is such a small group that soon all LH'ers would be phased out. Therefor they don't need to concern theirselves with providing a product for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kframe_mike Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 LOL...Off topic,but did anybody catch the Shooting USA show Wed night?They reviewed that R8 with the "special sear"(poorly fit hand) that let you stage the double action pull for an "more precise" break or some BS like that.I about fell off the couch laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I just called S&W and they said they "never heard this one before".They mentioned that the "hand" was not engaging when I used my left hand and to adjust my trigger pull technique. I asked if they could adjust the clearances or something so this would not happen no matter how I pulled the trigger. They declined. Just my luck to get a brand new unreliable revolver... yay for me... That does suck. there is absolutely no reason for that. I had a friend last year bought a brand new Performance Center 627 from S&W and when he got it the barrel had no rifling! It took a little while before he figured out why it shot so lousy. While that stuff doesn't happen often, it really should not be happening at all. -Cuz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 S&W probably figures that the Left Handed population is such a small group that soon all LH'ers would be phased out. Therefor they don't need to concern theirselves with providing a product for them. Yeah, if you're gonna shoot "wrong handed" you deserve whatever happens to you!! Well, I'm no fan of S&W repair and service, so I won't rush to their defense. Lord knows I've told my horror story(ies) often enough. But don't be discouraged about your gun rr4406pak, it can be fixed and be made 100% reliable and easier to shoot. It's pretty simple once you learn a few things and there are several folks around that can help you with it. (Carmoney was mentioned and would be a good choice) As for this being further proof of S&W's decline, well, I won't defend this exhibit, but S&W has certainly had darker days than the present. The 625 model of 1989 comes to mind. I also remember a bottom feeder series (The "Smegma" Line? ) that was particularly pitiful. Perhaps those problems have been fixed. I also recall a brand whose followers invented a term I had never heard in 40+ years of shooting called "Limp Wristing". It seems that if you ever had a feeding problem with this brand (what *was* that name?) it was universally blamed on not holding the gun right. The followers of this brand can be pretty rabid about how reliable and Perfect™ the guns are, so don't get caught suggesting the guns are less than 100% reliable. But then again, maybe it's just a Cult thing. In general I find there isn't much in the way of mass-produced products that will satisfy me in factory finish for any of my pursuits that I am passionate about. Guns, Bicycles, Guitars, etc, all need quite a bit of work and tweaking right out of the box to perform at even moderate levels. For some things I do the work myself; for other things I maintain a good relationship with local gunsmiths, mechanics, Luthiers, etc. So take heart. The S&W 610 isn't the best design or quality on the market for what it is, it's just a mile better than whatever is second. It's a solid foundation on which you can build a quite respectable gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.carden Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Just a thought.......... Make sure the side plate screws are tightned down, all of them.........Then pull the hammer back far enough to get a few drops of thick oil on the sear so it can drip down on to the trigger/sear engagement surfaces and the hand-to-extractor (rachets) contact also......... There's alot of sharp edges on the working parts inside (hand, extractor star, sear etc....) that need some breaking-in Give that a try and see what happens.... DanBagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mainus Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 S&W probably figures that the Left Handed population is such a small group that soon all LH'ers would be phased out. Therefor they don't need to concern theirselves with providing a product for them. Yeah, if you're gonna shoot "wrong handed" you deserve whatever happens to you!! Those sound like fightin' words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 S&W probably figures that the Left Handed population is such a small group that soon all LH'ers would be phased out. Therefor they don't need to concern theirselves with providing a product for them. Yeah, if you're gonna shoot "wrong handed" you deserve whatever happens to you!! Those sound like fightin' words I know about a gun you can borrow for the fight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sinko Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 What exactly were the "issues" of the 625 Model of 1989? I just acquired an unfired specimen that says 45 CAL MODEL OF 1989 on the stub 3" barrel. And I think my trusty old 625 that I bought used years ago was also a Model of 1989. I had that one re-beaded and all the laser markings are gone. I shot the 3" gun yesterday and it is about all I can ask of a S&W revolver. Fit and finish are first rate and the DA is smooth, though heavy. It's very accurate and shoots cast bullets beautifully. Are you referring to metallurgical problems that will cause the gun to shoot loose very quickly? I am very happy with how this one performs right now and will do whatever is necessary to keep it in good shooting order. It will be my daily carry and practice gun and I just might shoot a USPSA match with it later this morning if I can patch up my cracked and bleeding hands and fingers. Oh, and it functions fine when fired both right and left handed. Dave Sinko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerT Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 The 625-2 had tight cylinders, resulting in difficult extraction of the fired brass. They should all have been adjusted by either S&W or previous users by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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