Garrett Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 I recently had a comp installed on my Glock 17. I was told that I would have to go to a lighter recoil spring (no suprise there). I started with a 13 lb. ISMI glock spring. The gun would not cycle, so I started cutting the spring by about 1/4" or so at a whack. I finally cut a total of 1 3/4" off of the spring. The slide will no longer lock up reliably, and the gun still will not cycle. The closest I can get is the occasional stovepipe type jam. Usually, it just extracts partially, and then shoves the empty case back into the chamber. Anyone else experienced this problem before? The problem is getting a spring that is light enough, but that still has enough lenght to give complete lock up of the slide. I am going to a lighter striker spring also. As it is now, when I pull the trigger, the slide will start moving backwards. Not good. I was shooting Winchester 115 gr. "white box" ammo. I also tried some handloads using N350 with both 115 & 124 gr bullets. Same results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Tom Novak makes some NICE comped Glocks (handgunneroutlet.com) & he told me he has to take a lot of weight out of the slide, to make up for the added weight of the comp & longer barrel. dvc - eric - a28026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Don't cut down springs; that actually makes them stiffer. Get a lighter rate spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Most likely you'll have to go to a different spring type/manufacturer. 13lbs is the lightest I've seen made for a Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Taking weight out of the slide should help. (likely need to mill some material out) Wolff makes a lighter recoil spring than ISMI (I thought they had an 11#, but only see a 12# on their website.) http://www.gunsprings.com/1ndex.html Winchester White box makes a pretty low power factor. You may need some loads with more juice to push the slide back. (Reloading I hope? If so, look into powders that will give you enough gas tomake the compesator work effectively.) Don't shoot you Glock even one more time with a spring setup that cause the slide to unlock when pulling the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 I strongly agree with Flex' statement about not shooting that gun again. That thing can fire out of battery if the slide moves back as you pull the trigger. It can be a nasty event that you don't want any part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted May 19, 2003 Author Share Posted May 19, 2003 No, I'm not shooting the gun with the short spring installed. I'm going to try a light Wolff spring as well as a lighter striker spring. I'm afraid I will probably have to have some of the slide milled out to loose some weight. I was hoping to shoot the gun at a GSSF match in a few weeks. If I can't get it to run before then, I'll just shoot it without the comp and tinker later. I did shoot some handloads through it as Flex suggested. Results weren't any better. If anything, I'd have to load with a fast powder so the comp won't work as efficiently. That's the problem I'm into at the moment. The comp works too well. I'd really like to get it to where it will work with any ammo, and then tweak loads from there. As far as removing slide material, I'm debating the best way to go about doing it. I have a drill press and could make some 3/8" or 1/2" woodpecker holes in the sides. I think the guns with the slot milled out of the top (like the G34/35) look better though. Don't know, I'll have to ponder that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Garrett, you might get in touch with the Mad Scientist on this forum. He's built some open Glocks and has experience with the spring options, likes, dislikes, cans and cannots with a comped Glock. I just know there's a fine line regarding recoil springs on some guns between too light and too heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Scientist Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Garret, when comping any gun the comp redirects energy away from the slide. This diversion acts as a recoil reducing event. When the gun relives the presures in the barrel (bullet exit) the gun unlocks. if there is not enough residual energy the gun short cycles as you are exsperiencesing. bottom line 11 pound springs are the floor for glocks with moderately lightened slides. so a stock slide with no cuts will need heavier springs to keep them in battery. (there is more there to keep still) With all that said now you must start adding powder based on barrel suport and comp design. I like 3n37 and 350 .sounds like you need more powder. what load are you using now ? open guns tend to need to make close to major to cycle. 7704021290 Johnnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 I just milled a G35 slide, the extended stainless slide from Caspian. The owner wanted to use it for steel (had a Optima in the slide) but it's a heavy slide, and was causing problems with the steel loads. I just copied the origional G35 cut from the muzzle and the front of the chamber, so it just ended up a longer slot. He just ran two boxes through it and said it worked great. When you point the gun, you can really feel it. That's the way I'd go. Fat slot like that really pulls a lot of weight out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted May 29, 2003 Author Share Posted May 29, 2003 I have tried a bunch of different loads, all with no success. I have tried starting relatively low and working up with a few different powders. I was using some relatively slow powders like N350 and Blue Dot. I got to just under 160 PF but still no good. The problem I am having here is that I have too much gas pressure/volume, working the comp too well. I even tried using a heavy bullet/ fast powder combo to try and get the gas volume down. I got into the 150 PF range, but I ended up with a case rupture. No good there. I had originally tried some ISMI 13 lb springs. I just picked up some Wolff 12 lb. springs. The springs themselves are longer than the ISMI springs. This may or may not make a difference. If these don't work, I was going to look at taking some metal out of my slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Scientist Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Garret, What type of comp are you using? also what type of sight ? Slide mounted? I use a 4 port hybride and a 6 port comp that is very efficient with a 13 pond spring. the slide has about 3 oz cut out and the functioning is great.be very careful when you start cuting as you can get them to light. if you have questions call me at 770 402 1290 BTW I dont use a slide mounted sight. so my cuts are less than say a doctor sight. adding weight into the slide must be compensated for by removing metal from some where else.I have about 8000 rounds thru various Glock open projects with varied slide cuting. I still think that you need some more powder.may need more barrel suport if you are poping cases. Open guns thrive on light bullets and VERY slow powders like 3n37 350 and 3n38 n105 etc. most need a balance of lightining light spring and lots of powder. My.02 Johnnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 and....more power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Garrett, you might get in touch with the Mad Scientist on this forum. Taken by itself, that's pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 Thanks for the replys. Sorry for the slow response, I've been on vacation for a few weeks. I tried out the Wolff 12 lb. spring. I cut it back about an inch. I can get about 50% functioning with the bulk 100 rd. box of 115 fmj from Wal Mart. That is fairly light stuff. I'm going to try out some more handloads and see if I can get it running a little better now. If I still can't get it 100%, I'll start looking seriously at removing metal from the slide. What would work best: remove a slot from the top (like on the Glock 34/35) or start making smaller holes in the sides? I can cut the side holes on a drill press. I'd have to have someone with a mill cut out the slot on the top. Mad Scientest, to answer your question, I'm using a comp from BP Tech ( www.bp-tec.com ). The scope is a Tasco PDP6 moundted on the frame with a THE mount. No added weight on the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I did shoot some handloads through it as Flex suggested. Results weren't any better. If anything, I'd have to load with a fast powder so the comp won't work as efficiently. That's the problem I'm into at the moment. The comp works too well. I'd really like to get it to where it will work with any ammo, and then tweak loads from there. I got to just under 160 PF but still no good. The problem I am having here is that I have too much gas pressure/volume, working the comp too well. Garrett, I'm just going to say this...in hopes of saving you some wasted time and effort. The above assumptions just aren't true. You NEED to make MAJOR power factor, or maybe even better for the gun to run. Forget about your comp for a second. What you need is enough POWER to cycle the slide. Winchester white box won't do it. Fast powders won't do it (because you will see pressure problems before you get enough power). Use a slow powder. Build up to power factor safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRBean Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I'd get rid of the BP Tech comp. If it is anything like the one a friend of mine had on his STI those things are very heavy. Brian H might be able to come up with a titanium one for you and do what ever slide lightening you need done. My first gun was a glock 35 and the first thing I did as soon as I got home with it was order a 6 port barrel from Lone Wolf Distributors(4 ports though the slot in the slide and 2 additional ports past the end of the slide). With factory Magtech ammo the thing ran great and shot flat, but the slide was lightened and it didn't have the weight a comp on the end of it. Simply put, lighter slide,lighter comp, more powder, and you should be ready to rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Scientist Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Garret, Neccesity is the mother of advention. since you have a drill press I would opt for the 3/8 holes inthe top and or side. To run white box you will need to take a fare amount of material out of the slide. since i have no exsperience with these loadings in open I cant give you a specifice weight . I do have a novac open glock with a 6 port comp and doctor sight. Tom cut a slot from about a 1/4 " from the muzzle to wiyhin 1/2" of the locking lug.the cut is the width of the slide.with the doctor added back in the slide is ABOUT 2to3 oz lighter than stock.The gun functions perfectly with white box and a 12 pnd spring.You might give Tom Novac a call at hand gunner inc. as he has exsperience with steel guns. I will caution you that you can get the slide to light Iwould drill a couple holes at a time untill it starts to work with a12 pnd spring and your desired load.You will also need carbide drill bits as the slides are very very hard. Johnnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Novak's Handgunner Outlet You won't be disappointed! I've seen a good number of these that Tom has built, and work with him on developing loads for them...a nice challenge and the nice part of having a chrono that can be used indoors! When i am ready to go limited or open, he's building my glock...did an outstanding job on my production 34. (sorry for the thread drift!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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