How Fast Can You Pull...

[spook]

RC, yeah, genetics certainly have their role in this whole thing too. But you don't have to be able to shoot .13 splits constantly to beat Jerry (though I think Jerry won't be beaten in the next say... 10 decades )

There are people who can shoot faster than Eric Grauffel and can't beat him. There's more than just hosing involved. Don't give up after watching those tapes. Learn from them.

In a year and a couple of months of revolvershooting I got my splits down from .35 to .23 and my reloads from 3.5 to 1.8. That's still not even close to Jerry levels, but I'm just going to work my butt off getting there...

Think of all the things the tapes show: they all have to do with 'static' shooting and reloading. There are so many things that you can practice getting faster at. Movement between positions is a real time-killer if you don't train it. If you win .5 seconds at a movement between two arrays, that equals lowering 10 .20 splits to 10 .15 splits.

[Steve Anderson]

You guys probly already know this, but I read a great article about Jerry shooting as fast as possible to overcome a flinch in his early years.

Evidently he deduced he could shoot multiple shoots per flinch by shooting faster, rest is history.

I wish I could recall where I read it.

I would also wager that genetics have almost nothing to do with it, but it's a great excuse not to practice...

SA

[Flexmoney]

I would also wager that genetics have almost nothing to do with it, but it's a great excuse not to practice...

My money is with Steve!

[Ron Ankeny]

Actually, genetics can play a role in any physical activity. You all know about fast twitch vs. slow twitch muscle, blah, blah, blah.

Having said that....I really do believe .23 splits are plenty fast enough to get a person deep into Master class or even to GM for that matter.

[scooterj]

Genetics does have something to do with it!!

Jerry's brother, Donnie, has one hell of a trigger finger too!!!!!

[Flexmoney]

Genetics does have something to do with it!!

Jerry's brother, Donnie, has one hell of a trigger finger too!!!!!

Could be they simple learned...and practiced...the same technique.

Accepting that you may be genetically inferior is a self-imposed limitation.

[Steve Anderson]

Here's a parallel for you.

My Grandfather on my Dad's side was an award winning hiugh school band director in Texas

My Dad, after years of hard, work became an award winning band director in Oklahoma and Texas.

My Grandmother on my Mom's side was a church organist for 50! years.

My Mother was a Cello teacher and general music teacher forever.

My Brother is a Lousy music teacher, been fired multiple times and had contracts non-renewed.

I, after practicing 4 hours a day for years became a fairly proficient guitar player and teacher.

If genetics is so strong, why is my brother not a third generation award winning band director?

Definitely admire and respect Jerry Miculek's revolver shooting. But please don't think that level of skill is his property and unattainable by anyone else.

Anyone willing to devote the majority of his free time to revolver excellence (and work harder than Jerry)could eventually surpass or at least equal Jerry's skill.

Btw, if I got a genetic "gift" it is the expectation of excellence in all endeavors. But that was learned, not written in biologic code. Thanks, Dad.

SA

[spook]

LOL, Steve, that's not really how genetics work. Genes can determine in a way and to a certain extend, how good you can get when you do your best. And Jerry's trigger finger might be passed on to his children, or maybe they won't be able to fire a gun as fast as their dad. They'll get pretty close anyhow, if they put in some work.

I remember an experiment where they grew lettuce. They made the heads smaller and smaller. When you finally crossed two of the smallest ones, you would get an enourmous one back. There are no simple rules in genetics. But I think you do agree that it is not a coincidence that most NBA players are tall, for instance. Genes can help, that's all.

But I also believe you shouldn't be thinking about them too much. If you believe you'll never be as fast as Jerry, you probably never will be. So no matter what kind of genes you have, just work hard as hell. I doubt anyone will ever reach the potential limit that their genes allow. It's like having only 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 rounds at your disposal to become good. There's a limit, but you'll probably never get there.

[Tom Freeman]

First try, 57 times.

Second try 10 minutes later, 61 times.

Third try after only a minute or two, 46 times.

Must be getting tired.

All of the above with factory rebound springs, 5.25 pound trigger pulls, a 625, 627 and a 686.

Bill Drills I cant get under a 20 split average.

In a match I can average 18-22 splits inside of 10 yards and still get solid A's shooting major. Switching to minor I can get an occasional 14-16 split, averaging 17-20 splits.

12 yard plate racks I also speed up as I go. 21 splits at first, down to 17 splits at the end. Although with a revo I shoot plate racks right to left.

This weekend while prone on 99-09 long range standards, I averaged .20 splits at 40 yards, down 7 points in 12 shots. Felt good about that. Still do actually.

Hacking off the single action sear surface helped a bit by getting the hammer to fall sooner in the pull process. It didnt really cut any time off, but it made my splits more consistent and I was able to swing through targets a little more aggressively. Or so I like to tell myself...

[spook]

Wow Tom, those are impressive numbers, man!

Wouldn't want to run into you at a match

[Ron Ankeny]

Tom:

Wow. Those times and level of accuracy are definitely GM material. Good going.

[Tom Freeman]

Tom:

Wow. Those times and level of accuracy are definitely GM material. Good going.

I have turned in a few A scores but nothing even close to GM. Add to that I cant reload for squat.

I have found I have to back off a half notch as there is no room for error. Shank a D or a miss and you have a standing reload.

[spook]

WHOOOOHOOOO!!!!! OK everyone, I just had my wide serrated triggers installed and my friggin' splits went down 0.05 seconds!!!!

I can pull the trigger 60+ times in 10 seconds now. Dang, I didn't expect that much of a difference!

[Ron Ankeny]

OK, I just tried it cold with my 610 and I made 48 manipulations of the trigger. I guess my endurance sucks, but the last time I checked I only had to pull a trigger six times before taking time off to reload.

[alellis]

Bringing this one back from the grave because earlier today I tried out how fast I could dry fire 6 times.

I dry fired 6 times in 1.4 deconds starting with my finger on the trigger.

Do I devide this by 5 or 6 to get my splits.

Do I subtract 0.20 for reaction time before I devide ?

I never thought to see how many cycles I could do in 10 seconds but I will try next time.

I don't expect it will be too many I reckon my finger will tire.

al

[AlamoShooter]

Bringing this one back from the grave because earlier today I tried out how fast I could dry fire 6 times.

I dry fired 6 times in 1.4 deconds starting with my finger on the trigger.

Do I devide this by 5 or 6 to get my splits.

Do I subtract 0.20 for reaction time before I devide ?

I never thought to see how many cycles I could do in 10 seconds but I will try next time.

I don't expect it will be too many I reckon my finger will tire.

al

It an verage so you can fudge the ###'s any way you wont = A=Take away .20 for reaction time. = 1.2 and thin devide by 5 for the remaining shots = .20 per shot.

I don't know about the rest of the guys but I can live fire faster than dry fire becuse the recoil helps me set up the trigger. its like the gun shoots for itself.

But maybe? I don't know anything?

Jamie

[Bubber]

Bringing this one back from the grave because earlier today I tried out how fast I could dry fire 6 times.

I dry fired 6 times in 1.4 deconds starting with my finger on the trigger.

Do I devide this by 5 or 6 to get my splits.

Do I subtract 0.20 for reaction time before I devide ?

I never thought to see how many cycles I could do in 10 seconds but I will try next time.

I don't expect it will be too many I reckon my finger will tire.

al

It an verage so you can fudge the ###'s any way you wont = A=Take away .20 for reaction time. = 1.2 and thin devide by 5 for the remaining shots = .20 per shot.

I don't know about the rest of the guys but I can live fire faster than dry fire becuse the recoil helps me set up the trigger. its like the gun shoots for itself.

But maybe? I don't know anything?

Jamie

Closer to .24 seconds.

Splits mean very little as a measure without the accuarcy, but is fun to see how fast we can get, and on that note what I tried was to put only two live rounds in the cylinder and indexed on second round so that I would have some warmups before firing the two rounds. (click click click click bang bang) A meaningless exercise but fun, (got a .17)

[AlamoShooter]

Bringing this one back from the grave because earlier today I tried out how fast I could dry fire 6 times.

I dry fired 6 times in 1.4 deconds starting with my finger on the trigger.

Do I devide this by 5 or 6 to get my splits.

Do I subtract 0.20 for reaction time before I devide ?

I never thought to see how many cycles I could do in 10 seconds but I will try next time.

I don't expect it will be too many I reckon my finger will tire.

al

What timer are you useing? = if you set the par time at 1.25 most timers start the stop tone at 1.00 and end the tone at 1.25 for the end of the second beep? mos tbeeps are close to .25 long ifyou set your timer for .50 with some of them you wil hear one long beeeep or beep-beep

[alellis]

Well that was an eye opener.

I have found one area that needs some training, finger strength.

I only managed 35 in 10 seconds and I could see myself slowing down.

35 first time, just barely 35 second time and I didn't make it third time.

What timer are you useing? = if you set the par time at 1.25 most timers start the stop tone at 1.00 and end the tone at 1.25 for the end of the second beep? mos tbeeps are close to .25 long ifyou set your timer for .50 with some of them you wil hear one long beeeep or beep-beep

I am using the pocket pro.

I had thought that time started at the commencment of the first beep and stopped at the commencement of the second beep.

al

[pskys2]

Unless I close my eyes, I have this habit of looking at the sights, I can dry fire faster than live fire even though it feels slower.

For pure speed down to .17 it seems that I'm fastest when I stroke the trigger of a DA Rev like I do a SA 1911 (but that leads to an occassional short stroke). If I shoot for points and roll the trigger smoothly, the fastest I can get to reliably with good hits is .22.

Below .20 at 10 yards it becomes so much a function of muscle memory, the shot is where it is and it's hard to compensate. I actually think it is detrimental to good match performance to practice it too much. A GM once told me on a fast speed shoot he shoots for points, as everyone (in his world) is shooting at the same speeds and he couldn't afford to lose a D.

In November though, just before knocking off for the holidays, I was hitting .24 at 15 yards with solid A's, with both my 1911 and 625. And it felt GOOOD! Now it'd probably be about .40 with hits everywhere!

One thing I noticed was no difference in times between a 7# and 4# DA Trigger Pull. The lighter pull seemed a bit more consistent at hyper speed and the hits were always a point or two higher. But the average, hi and lows were the same.

[AlamoShooter]

I am using the pocket pro.

I had thought that time started at the commencment of the first beep and stopped at the commencement of the second beep.

al

one TEst is to set the timer at .75 to.60 untill the time bettween the beeps is the same.

A pact timer set at .75 is each space on the page was .05 it would be - Beep----Beep

The beep it self is .25to .30 long + or - if you set the timer lower and lower untill you get one conituos tone you can get close to finding it.

with one of my older Pact MKIII set at .50 i get a small space bettween beep beep. set at .49 one long beeeeeep

so my tone must be .245 long I just call it .25 on of my Comp Eelc. timers makes one tone at .58 =+ ? it is not as easy to set so I mostly use the Pact for par times.

So the good news is your splits are faster than you thought

[alellis]

one TEst is to set the timer at .75 to.60 untill the time bettween the beeps is the same.

A pact timer set at .75 is each space on the page was .05 it would be - Beep----Beep

The beep it self is .25to .30 long + or - if you set the timer lower and lower untill you get one conituos tone you can get close to finding it.

with one of my older Pact MKIII set at .50 i get a small space bettween beep beep. set at .49 one long beeeeeep

so my tone must be .245 long I just call it .25 on of my Comp Eelc. timers makes one tone at .58 =+ ? it is not as easy to set so I mostly use the Pact for par times.

So the good news is your splits are faster than you thought

If I set it to 0,30 I get one long beep if I set it to 0.40 I get two beeps.

All this means to me is that I cant set a par time less than .40.

I really think that the second beep starts at the par time I can't see a reason to have the beep start before the time.

But I hope you are right.

al

[alellis]

I really think that the second beep starts at the par time I can't see a reason to have the beep start before the time.

But I hope you are right.

al

I dug out the instructions and they say that the second beep starts at the time set.

I also found that there is a sensitivity adjustment screw that I didn't know about so I can play with it because it misses the occasional shot unless it is held close.

al

[AzShooter]

Look at the second hand of an analog watch and forget about the beeps already.

[Agnes]

I got 24 in 5 seconds.

At first my problem was to count, not to pull the trigger .... how do you guys manage to count that quickly (to 35 in 5 seconds or to 61 in 10 seconds)?

Nice experiment! At least I know now that the trigger pull is not the reason for my slow split-times

greetings

Agnes