PJONES5 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 This not designed for concealed carry is a misnomer and catch all for people who have their own idea of what the rule book says.Pat I don't understand. You mean like this part of the rulebook: 1. IDPA Magazine Carrier Criteria Magazine carrier must: A. Be designed for concealed carry and suitable for all day continuous wear. kr Exactly Ken,does the company have to state that a product is especially design for concealed carry before it is to be accepted. An example is the thin metal 1911 mag holders that are the most concealable mag holders that I have ever used,but don't completely cover the mag,so they are not legal. I stand by what I said,I can conceal the CR speed as well as other legal carriers under my legal IDPA vest. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 At least 3 people have e mails to IDPA HQ regarding this issue. Mine has a picture of the mag holder........ Perhaps we will get an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Well, my attempt to email IDPA HQ failed. I get bounce back messages to both robert@idpa.com and info@idpa.com, message undeliverable, and message undeliverable due to spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeidaho Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I stand by what I said,I can conceal the CR speed as well as other legal carriers under my legal IDPA vest.Pat Pat, I get your point now. Thanks! I think you are essentially saying you don't like the wording in the rulebook. Two thoughts. You just made up your own criteria. I can conceal an open class USPSA gun under one of those "IDPA" vests and I'm pretty sure it wasn't designed for concealed carry. It is a made up criteria, and it doesn't work. Either you use the criteria in the rulebook or you make up your own. As an MD you can do either. Either way, HQ will weigh in soon enough, and all this typing will be moot. Have a good night! kr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJONES5 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I stand by what I said,I can conceal the CR speed as well as other legal carriers under my legal IDPA vest.Pat Pat, I get your point now. Thanks! I think you are essentially saying you don't like the wording in the rulebook. Two thoughts. You just made up your own criteria. I can conceal an open class USPSA gun under one of those "IDPA" vests and I'm pretty sure it wasn't designed for concealed carry. It is a made up criteria, and it doesn't work. Either you use the criteria in the rulebook or you make up your own. As an MD you can do either. Either way, HQ will weigh in soon enough, and all this typing will be moot. Have a good night! kr Ken I doubt you will ever get the point I was making. We can agree to disagree. Have a good evening also. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeidaho Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) Ken I doubt you will ever get the point I was making. Pat, I can aspire to be as smart as you.... someday! kr editted to say: After the attitude warning: I'm sorry for the attitude. That was my only publically acceptable response to being told I will never get a point. Edited December 30, 2007 by freeidaho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Yep... It's that time again. Yet another thread dies an inglorious death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 No lockdown yet. Though this might be an excellent opportunity to review the Forum Guidelines, specifically: Attitude Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful. No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter. Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJONES5 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 No lockdown yet. Though this might be an excellent opportunity to review the Forum Guidelines, specifically:Attitude Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful. No bickering. Regardless of the subject matter. Antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones are not acceptable. Well Duane I thought I was polite. pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Robert Ray of IDPA HQ is registered on this forum as username detonics. Perhaps a PM to him along with the emails to HQ? IDPA rules are pretty clear about holsters, and the maximum distance of .75" between the body and gun. Although not specifically stated in the rules, one would think the same would apply of magazine carriers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Well, if you asked Rescomp: "Hey, are these magazine holders designed for IPSC and USPSA competitions? Will they work with a 2-piece competition belt system?" It's not hard to guess what the answer would be. I'm far more interested in the call on the Safariland 773 holders. Homie, your email bounced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 What strikes me about that reply is that he didn't actually answer the question. Remember Recomp is a world away. English, and the version of it we speak here in the US, might not be his first language. Keep in mind the question also included self defense use. To that he answered 100% spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I'm far more interested in the call on the Safariland 773 holders. I can't see those as appropriate for concealed carry. And I say that as someone who tried. The problem is the open-up-the-front design. When sitting in a car seat, the seat cushions push the magazine forward at top, it winds up at a 45-degree angle, half out of the pouch. I've had a magazine depart the pouch and hit the concrete as I was exiting the car with these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I put velcro on mine, doesn't that make em tactical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I'm far more interested in the call on the Safariland 773 holders. I can't see those as appropriate for concealed carry. And I say that as someone who tried. The problem is the open-up-the-front design. When sitting in a car seat, the seat cushions push the magazine forward at top, it winds up at a 45-degree angle, half out of the pouch. I've had a magazine depart the pouch and hit the concrete as I was exiting the car with these things. The 773's are closed in the front, the 771's are open in the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) Attempting to impose your own gear criteria may be subject to the failure to do right rule. C 1. Competitors will not attempt to circumvent or compromise the spirit or rationale of any stage either by the use of inappropriate devices, equipment or techniques. This is the Failure To Do Right rule. The Safariland 773 pouch is enclosed in front, but is not what I would call a "concealable" mag pouch either. Although the single stack pouches are easily concealable. This particular pouch is listed on the Safariland website under the Competition section instead of the Concealment section as well. And contacting IDPA HQ, in my experience, is a fruitless endeavor. Contacting Robert Ray via a PM here would probably be the best course of action. YMMV considerably in these concerns. Edited December 31, 2007 by Rocket35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Attempting to impose your own gear criteria may be subject to the failure to do right rule.C 1. Competitors will not attempt to circumvent or compromise the spirit or rationale of any stage either by the use of inappropriate devices, equipment or techniques. This is the Failure To Do Right rule. The Safariland 773 pouch is enclosed in front, but is not what I would call a "concealable" mag pouch either. Although the single stack pouches are easily concealable. This particular pouch is listed on the Safariland website under the Competition section instead of the Concealment section as well. And contacting IDPA HQ, in my experience, is a fruitless endeavor. Contacting Robert Ray via a PM here would probably be the best course of action. YMMV considerably in these concerns. Safariland did everyone a disservice by categorizing their catalog. The 773 mag holder is listed in their catalog under "Competition Gear". By Safarilands own description as Competition Gear, it would not be allowed at an IDPA competition where I was the MD. http://www.rushusa.com/html/products/safar.../comp-gear.html Happy New Year, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 The 773's are closed in the front, the 771's are open in the front. Oops, I stand corrected. (Well, actually I'm sitting, but you know what I mean.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Magazine carrier must:A. Be designed for concealed carry and suitable for all day continuous wear. (subjective, yet CRSpeed does meet these criteria) Yup, subjective. Unless you have a specific ruling from HQ, you are at the mercy of the match officials. If I was a match official and I did not like USPSA shooters, sorry. But let's say the person has never considerd these before and he goes to the Rescomp Web Site What do they see at the top of the page? "Designed to Win". You really need to get a ruling. But, what is the point? With all the other crap you have to do on reloads (concealment, RWR, etc) any advantage that you get over an "acceptable" mag pouch is lost in the noise (unless you are one of those guys who always seem to be at slidelock ). Happy New Year, Chuck maybe if it said,.."designed for self defense" LOL,....I can adjust me mag pouches to position them closer to the body....I don't see the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detonics Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 All, I would like to help by giving a definite answer on the Safariland/CRSpeed questions but unfortunately I have no first hand knowledge of either product. I have looked at the pictures available but still do not feel comfortable making a call until I see one in person. I believe I have seen the CR Speed before (I have shot USPA and am a member as well ) but I did not pay enough attention to it. Based on those recollections and some pictures, I don't think it will be legal but will try and get a closer look for a definitive answer. I am completely unfamiliar with the Safariland models though, the pictures I have seen are not very good. Magazine pouches also must adhere to the 3/4 inch rule that is applied to holsters. I now have that in my "Big Book of Changes" for the next rule book by the way. It should have been in the magazine carrier section as well as the holster section but it was an oversight. I hope that I can get a look at these soon, but it will probably be SHOT show as there is no one stocking these around here (Nowhere, Arkansas). I do not wish to make a call on legality until giving each the full chance and not cutting one because of a bad camera angle. Homie (Mitch), I fixed your email address in my system, it should not bounce now but I have had problems with my emails spam filter. Merlin, I never got yours. Did you use robert at idpa.com? Anyone can PM me here or a better way is robert at idpa.com. If you get a message that your email was caught as spam, I do check my spam filter regularly. I will get your email one way or another, although because of volume, it may take several day to get back to you. Robert Ray IDPA HQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Got your email, I hate spam as well. Thank you for looking into this issue and look forward to your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Robert I sent several to you just now. Perhaps this will help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Thanks for the pics Merlin. Looking at those, how can these meet the criteria ??? E. Cover the entire front face of the portion of the magazineinside the carrier. The front face is defined as the side of the tube away from the shooter’s body.(CRSeed meets criteria) It looks like these holders are meant to go on a shooters left side. With bullets-forward magazine placement, there would be that big U-shaped gap in the carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 P99shooter, please re-read in rule "E". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) P99shooter, please re-read in rule "E". Gotcha. OK. So, that side is fully enclosed, but not the forward facing side. Edited January 2, 2008 by p99shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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