S&W 610 in competition

[41mag]

Many of you already know this about me and now I confess to the rest...I suffer from a serious but not normally fatal condition known among most of us as MGS or Multi Gun Syndrome. I recently had an out burst which resulted in the acquisition of a model 610 6 1/2". I already own some model 25's and 625's and already know they are the best for USPSA type shooting and I will still use them at any match where you guys might show up . Think of the 610 as ankle weights for training. I already load 40 for my wife so thats covered. I would like to ask you folks about equipment that works best with this revo.

OK..first lets talk about clips. The gun came with 10 clips that were in a Brownells package and I assume that's the brand. They are the same thickness as my Ranch 45acp clips at about 40 thou. But....they are weak as heck! Just look at them hard and they are bent! What moonclips work best? What ones offer the best price/performance ratio?

Second thing.....This 610 has a factory chamfer on the charge holes that is not as big as the one I put on my 625 with the Brownells tool I bought. How big of chamfer can I put on the 610 with out having case eruptions or head separations?

I would love to hear from any one who has major pf loads with a round nose bullet. I have ordered some 200gr rn from Cheys. I would like to get away with Clays powder if possible but I could be flexible if need be.

Edited because I hit the button before I was done!

OK...what am I missing here? Clips, chamfer, load. I think that covers it. Please add any additional info that applies please.

Thanks for your time.

41mag

Edited December 15, 2007 by 41mag

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Many of you already know this about me and now I confess to the rest...I suffer from a serious but not normally fatal condition known among most of us as MGS or Multi Gun Syndrome. I recently had an out burst which resulted in the acquisition of a model 610 6 1/2". I already own some model 25's and 625's and already know they are the best for USPSA type shooting and I will still use them at any match where you guys might show up . Think of the 610 as ankle weights for training. I already load 40 for my wife so thats covered. I would like to ask you folks about equipment that works best with this revo.

OK..first lets talk about clips. The gun came with 10 clips that were in a Brownells package and I assume that's the brand. They are the same thickness as my Ranch 45acp clips at about 40 thou. But....they are weak as heck! Just look at them hard and they are bent! What moonclips work best? What ones offer the best price/performance ratio?

Second thing.....This 610 has a factory chamfer on the charge holes that is not as big as the one I put on my 625 with the Brownells tool I bought. How big of chamfer can I put on the 610 with out having case eruptions or head separations?

I would love to hear from any one who has major pf loads with a round nose bullet. I have ordered some 200gr rn from Cheys. I would like to get away with Clays powder if possible but I could be flexible if need be.

Edited because I hit the button before I was done!

OK...what am I missing here? Clips, chamfer, load. I think that covers it. Please add any additional info that applies please.

Thanks for your time.

41mag

You need to "talk" to 10mmDAVE and HDGUN. Both shoot 610s and do it rather well.

Regards,

[DougCarden]

Load long with the CLAYS (1.200 at least) and you should be ok. I ran a 610 for years shooting pins and love the gun, but I think you can use it to your benefit by really having to "look" your reloads into the cylinder, it is not as forgiving as the huge holes for the .45.

I dont remember about the moons.....DaveP is the man for the 610 in the circles that I used to run in!

Have fun with it!

DougC

[scooterj]

Pat, you can get pretty aggressive with the chamfering of the charge holes. The moon clips from Dillon work well and they are fairly inexpensive. They are a little perticular about brass, mine like Winchester best.

BTW.. Elliot makes the Speed-E-Rack for the 610 also.

[41mag]

Thank you very much for the info everyone.

41mag

[sargenv]

I didn't get to this till now. Seriously consider getting some of the RIMZ moons. I use nothing BUT Rimz and I love them for my 610. I used them at the Nats this year. If you want stout moons, Hearthco's are nice, but there is that problem about bending them. I LOVE the Rimz since you have quite enough meat with the 40 and 10 mm brass that they hold the rounds pretty well and you need not really worry about bending them or people stepping on them because they go back to normal. They simply work.

As soon as the new production model 610's are allowed in this state, I have a standing order with my dealer.. As soon as we can process it, I'm going to have another!

I actually prefer to shoot minor with my 610. Mostly to keep the same load between Steel, USPSA/IPSC, and ICORE. I load the Bear creek 140 RN moly coated stuff. There just isn't anything local to me that make a 180 or 200 gr rn. I wouldn't mind seeing a 180 gr semi-pointed bullet made specifically for loading in a 610 with 40's but I think this would have to be a special order thing. Not enough demand.

Edited December 16, 2007 by sargenv

[haras]

Hey Pat,

Major - 3.5gr Clays under a 200gr RN Cheycast , 846AVG MV, 169PF, out of a 5", 1.15 OAL

Minor - 2.8gr Clays under a 180gr RN Berry's bullet, 128PF, 715 AVG MV. out of a 5", 1.15 AOL

I have the guys at Chey cast ship unsized/unlubed 200gr RN .40 bullets to Rudy at Billy Bullets. He moly coats and sizes them.

http://www.billybullets.com/

http://www.cheycast.com/

http://www.berrysmfg.com/categories/14-0.php

Edited to add - These are 40S&W loads, not 10mm

Edited December 17, 2007 by haras

[10mmdave]

41mag, congrats on your new purchase, here's some stuff that I've found....

I use the Brownells clips with Winchester brass (10mm) they also work well with 40 Win brass

but I had a heck of time last year with accuracy with 40's and the bullets I had. (the 10's wern't much better )

Fed or FC is really loose in the Brownells clips (both 10mm and 40) You'll probably have to use the Hearthco clips

if your married to Fed/FC brass. And as always stated here, you can't beat the Heartco clips (if you can afford them )

sarg has talked up the Rimz clips for awhile now, might have to try some of those myself for the FC brass.

Used all Clays last year with 3.6 grns for a 200 lead bullet and 4.0-4.2 grns for Berrys 200 grn RNFP (which really ain't that

big of a flat point) the above was all old Win 10mm brass loaded to 1.25-1.265 OAL.

I had a real problem with Berrys 180 RN, if you go with those make sure they make them to the right size (.401 at least)

Have used Titegroup and Bullseye in 40 cases, 4.0-4.2 of TG at 1.200 OAL and 4.4 of Bullseye @ 1.230 OAL,

both of these with the Berrys 200 bullet.

As others will say, bullet selection is tough for the 610, Berry's and Rainer make semi-rounded profiles, and Billy Bullets

makes a moly coated 180 RN like a the Berry's. Magma Cast shows a 200 grn RN mold that I have to look at.

A truncated cone lead bullet in a good fitting moon clip isn't really that bad. (most lead bullet's I've seen have a fairly

small flat point on them)

And as far as a chamfer ? one of my 610's has more than most folks would do and it works fine, you have to go quite a

bit before you run out of case web in the 10mm and 40 S&W.

That's all I have for now. Good luck and have fun with the 610.

ps. I'll have to try those 200 grn. Cheycast/Billy bullets if he'll let me ?

[z40acp]

I just got an older 610 {6.5 barrel} and all the moonclips I have are supposed to be factory S&W. The Winchester brass fits tighter than Remington and Federal. What is better for speed changes, the tighter fit or the looser fit?

[10mmdave]

I just got an older 610 {6.5 barrel} and all the moonclips I have are supposed to be factory S&W. The Winchester brass fits tighter than Remington and Federal. What is better for speed changes, the tighter fit or the looser fit?

IMO (and you get what you pay for )

Tight fit, load up a clip with loaded rounds, look at the clip, bullet end front, and see if

the rounds flop down and touch each other.

No touch (tight) works better than floppy.

BUT ! ! ! the rounds do have too move in the clip, they can't be so tight that they don't spin free.

(never seen this happen with 610's or 45 clips but have with 627 clips)

[41mag]

Thanks gentleman

On my way out of town for work, will talk to you guys latter.

41mag

[z40acp]

The Winchester {tighter fit} brass does still move a little. Thanks for your help.

[hearthco]

"If you want stout moons, Hearthco's are nice, but there is that problem about bending them. "

That was a problem when I was making Stainless clips with the split. Now all of the clips for 625 and 610 are solid (no split) and blue spring steel. Dave

[haras]

Hey Dave!

Since S&W has re-introduced the 610 would you consider making a few 610 moonclip checkers? Please?

Pat,

I failed to say that load data was for 40S&W not 10mm. You want to go with 40S&W because the shorter OAL keeps the bullets farther apart if loose in the clip and of cours the shorter length is a faster reload.

[JWBooth]

41 mag,

Berry makes a 40 cal 155gr full round nose hollow base bullet that works real well. Or works good in my 646's. The down side is that nobody carries them. So you have to order them from the factory, or have a dealer special order them. Give me a call when you can, I will talk loads with you for major with Titegroup( at least with the 4" Bbl.

John Booth

Ps: good shooting with you at the Nats.

[41mag]

Hey Pat,

Major - 3.5gr Clays under a 200gr RN Cheycast , 846AVG MV, 169PF, out of a 5", 1.15 OAL

Minor - 2.8gr Clays under a 180gr RN Berry's bullet, 128PF, 715 AVG MV. out of a 5", 1.15 AOL

I have the guys at Chey cast ship unsized/unlubed 200gr RN .40 bullets to Rudy at Billy Bullets. He moly coats and sizes them.

http://www.billybullets.com/

http://www.cheycast.com/

http://www.berrysmfg.com/categories/14-0.php

Edited to add - These are 40S&W loads, not 10mm

Thank you Glenn,

That major load looks like the ticket....especially since I already ordered those bullets. My gun is a 6 1/2" barrel so should chrono ok.

Was the reason you bought yours unsized just because you were having them coated? Or do they not come sized right for the 610 40S&W? (200gr rn from Cheys)

What brass did you put these loads in? Does it matter?

thanks,

pat

[41mag]

I didn't get to this till now. Seriously consider getting some of the RIMZ moons. I use nothing BUT Rimz and I love them for my 610. I used them at the Nats this year. If you want stout moons, Hearthco's are nice, but there is that problem about bending them. I LOVE the Rimz since you have quite enough meat with the 40 and 10 mm brass that they hold the rounds pretty well and you need not really worry about bending them or people stepping on them because they go back to normal. They simply work.

Thanks Sargenv,

I should of checked out your set up when I was at the Nats but I didn't know I was going to get a 610!

I think I found there web site...I was looking for info. It would appear that my gun is to old, the RIMZ are for dash 2 and latter models. Mine is a no dash model. Know anything about that? It seems that on there web site that they might be talking about modifying them to fit my gun, not sure.

thanks,

pat

[41mag]

41 mag,

Berry makes a 40 cal 155gr full round nose hollow base bullet that works real well. Or works good in my 646's. The down side is that nobody carries them. So you have to order them from the factory, or have a dealer special order them. Give me a call when you can, I will talk loads with you for major with Titegroup( at least with the 4" Bbl.

John Booth

Ps: good shooting with you at the Nats.

Hello John,

Good to hear from you!

Going to be at Raynors on the 17th of Feb.? I can't wait.

I would love to do some good ol gun and reload BS with ya. Of course I lost your number .How about you PM or email me your number and maybe we can get together.

155 gr rn? Sounds interesting. Bout 1100 fps mv I suspect.

I think I got a little Titegroup around here somewhere.

thanks,

pat

[41mag]

"If you want stout moons, Hearthco's are nice, but there is that problem about bending them. "

That was a problem when I was making Stainless clips with the split. Now all of the clips for 625 and 610 are solid (no split) and blue spring steel. Dave

So the new ones don't bend so bad?

How thick are the 610 clips? Do they work with my no dash model? What brand of brass are your clips cut for?

The clips I have now that I mentioned above bend real easy. If you drop a loaded clip on the floor (wood) with 165 gr bullets installed its all over! I have dropped my Ranch 45acp clips with 230gr bullets onto the same floor for months now and still using them! Don't ask me why I drop them on the floor, its a secret .

thank you,

pat

[41mag]

And as far as a chamfer ? one of my 610's has more than most folks would do and it works fine, you have to go quite a

bit before you run out of case web in the 10mm and 40 S&W.

Thanks for the info Dave,

What tool did you use to chamfer your charge holes?

Do you have a picture you could show me?

thanks,

pat

[scooterj]

It would appear that my gun is to old, the RIMZ are for dash 2 and latter models. Mine is a no dash model. Know anything about that? It seems that on there web site that they might be talking about modifying them to fit my gun, not sure.

thanks,

pat

A friend has a 1st run 610. There are steel moons that are too thick. If I recall correctly, the Ranch clips work fine.

[sargenv]

I talked to the gent that makes the 610 at the IRC a couple years ago. He asked me about how they fit in my -2 model. I didn't know ytou had an original model.. I think he said something about wanting to or needing to make them for the standard model, it may be that he doesn't have an original gun to size to them. I don't think he showed up to the IRC in 2k7, here's hoping that he does in 2k8.

I think someone that goes by Magnus (RMagnus?) reccomended the RIMZ to me and I've not looked back to metal clips since.

[Flexmoney]

Pat,

"F C" marked 40 brass scares me. I've seen it let loose in an STI, a Para, and a Glock. Kimball got curious and sectioned some 40 brass after one of the incidents. The "F C" marked stuff was thin and didn't have much mass in the web.

I have to assume that the wheel gun is getting a lot more case support than the autos. I don't know how much a good chamfer takes away from that?

I wouldn't mind a heads-up if you are using it and I am on the timer...especially with a heavy bullet and a fast powder at major pf.

[hopalong]

On the cylinder chamfer,

You need to check with loaded moons that the chamfer does not extend past the cut of the brass towards the bullet.

It is fully supported that way, and to get it chamferd that deep you really have to get after it with the tool.

40 brass just doesn't like moon clips, unless they are Hearthco moons. just make sure you tell him it is an early model as there are some differences.

Hope that helps,

Hopalong

[41mag]

Hey Pat,

Major - 3.5gr Clays under a 200gr RN Cheycast , 846AVG MV, 169PF, out of a 5", 1.15 OAL

Edited to add - These are 40S&W loads, not 10mm

OK...just worked up to this load almost (3.4gr Clays). I was hoping to make the 3.4 work because that's exactly where the powder bar is set for my wife's minor 165gr loads.

850

856

853

850

855

859

average = 853 x 196.5gr = pf of 167

If the bullets actually weighed 200gr these velocities would work pretty well but as is there's not much room for margin. I better go ahead and bump to 3.5gr. I'm shooting 6 1/2" barrel.

A couple notes so far.....

Look how consistent those shots are! A spread of what....? 9fps! I never get that from my 45 loads. Maybe just a fluke? The spread at 3.1grs was 54....at 3.25grs spread was 19....I see a pattern. 3.5grs could be magic!

The other thing I noticed that concerns me is the lead deposits hanging in flakes from the chamber walls, I've never seen the likes of this in any other gun that I ran lead thru. I'll wait till I run a couple hundred thru and then pass judgement on these bullets.

I need to stick my JM grips on so I can judge the feel of this to my 625's. First impression is its soft but just as much muzzle flip as the 625. But muzzle flip always seems more when shooting slow at bulls eye or over chrono.

I will report back latter.

thanks everyone,

41mag