Would you compete with a 5.5lb trigger pull?

[WARDOG]

Italy adopted by day one the IPSC rules almost without modifications, that means that we glock users are forced to obey the "5lb minimum-trigger pull", that is fine..until you compete with tanfoglios with 2.8lbs double action a 1lbs single..

I do use a glock because I use it for self defense and did not wanto to switch back and forth between different weapon manual of arms.

So I ask, would you compete in production with a 5.5 lb trigger? (I asked for 5.5 because the trigger pull weight is checked let' say "forcefully" by our RM here, so it's better to stay on safe side"

Thanks for any answer.

[Flexmoney]

..until you compete with tanfoglios with 2.8lbs double action a 1lbs single..

Wouldn't those guns have to have a 5 pound first shot as well?

I suspect those type of Production guns have a 5lbs first shot, and then go to single-action on the following shots with a pull of around 2.8lbs. ?

I suspect any 1lb. trigger pulls won't be on the Production guns? (I believe the Standard and Open guns can get there though?)

To answer your question...yes, I'd shoot the Glock.

It does take a bit of work to shoot a standard Glock trigger well. It almost has a two stage feel to it.

[SouthpawG26]

Italy adopted by day one the IPSC rules almost without modifications, that means that we glock users are forced to obey the "5lb minimum-trigger pull", that is fine..until you compete with tanfoglios with 2.8lbs double action a 1lbs single..

I do use a glock because I use it for self defense and did not wanto to switch back and forth between different weapon manual of arms.

So I ask, would you compete in production with a 5.5 lb trigger? (I asked for 5.5 because the trigger pull weight is checked let' say "forcefully" by our RM here, so it's better to stay on safe side"

Thanks for any answer.

Dave Sevigny competes at the World Shoot with a 5.5lb G17, became world champion in 2002, though he lost by a hair to Adam Tyc in 2005 in Ecuador, to become runner up. I don't get the feeling that the trigger is holding him back.......

[spook]

Triggers are usually judged by just weight. Which I find interesting. I personally don't care less about trigger weight. I like consistency, smoothness and predictability.

I do shoot a G17 with a 3.5lbs connector and some minor polishing on the internal parts. Trigger breaks at 5.2lbs. I compete in Standard and Production. I can pretty much snap it right back with either hand and not disturb the sight picture, because I like to practice a lot.

It's just a matter of learning and getting to know your trigger. Once you know the trigger, weight makes no difference in how fast you can pull it without moving the sights (= speed + accuracy, which is all that matters).

Also, a Glock trigger has so much slack, once you take out the slack and learn where the break point is, it will feel like a 2-3lbs. trigger.

What I like about the Glock trigger:

1) Every pull is the same

2) It is (like Flex pointed out) almost two stage, which means you can really prep it when transitioning to the next target. That way you take up all the slack, making it feel like a 2lbs. trigger.

3) Reset is short and strong

Look at Eric Grauffel or Jerry Miculek. Eric shoots a 3lbs. trigger in Open and Jerry shoots about 6lbs. in Revolver and gets faster splits that almost anyone. Both guys are very accurate too.

As usual, it comes down to practice.

BTW, Flex is spot on. The first shot of the other guns that compete in Production should be 5lbs. as well.

Edited December 6, 2007 by spook

[Micah]

I, like Flex, am rather vexed by the original question...but my answer is still the same. Yes, I'd still shoot a Glock.

[Alan Meek]

Yes I would

[HSMITH]

I shot my Open gun for a while with a 5.5# trigger, and my Glock breaks near 7#. Yes, I would keep going with the Glock if that is what you like. Triggers that you are used to are far more important than weight in my mind.

[Skywalker]

Italy adopted by day one the IPSC rules almost without modifications, that means that we glock users are forced to obey the "5lb minimum-trigger pull", that is fine..until you compete with tanfoglios with 2.8lbs double action a 1lbs single..

Wardog,

I suspect you made some confusion between units of measure ...

I bet you were referring to tanfoglios with 2.8 Kg double action and 1 Kg single ... of which I have witnessed several on the range.

A 2.8lbs double action trigger pull is not allowed under either IPSC or FITDS rules, thus no point in discussing this.

OTOH, a 2.8 Kg DA trigger pull equals a nice and crisp 6.6lbs, which is plenty legal.

Not sure about the 1lb SA pull, though I think it's a bit over the edge of what you can get on a SA/DA tanfoglio.

[gunsablazin]

What Spook said!! Practice is where its at! I shoot stock triggers in all my guns, and don't like to "fix" guns that are working. I'd shoot a Glock right out of the box and not worry about it at all.

Robin

[boo radley]

I, like Flex, am rather vexed by the original question...but my answer is still the same. Yes, I'd still shoot a Glock.

Why do you and Flex find the original question so vexing?

If there were a 5lb minimum trigger pull in USPSA Production, I'd think a Glock would be a hell of a lot less attractive for a new shooter, who's not already used to/invested in the platform.

An out-of-the-box G17 is like a staple-gun.

[Micah]

Why do you and Flex find the original question so vexing?

If there were a 5lb minimum trigger pull in USPSA Production, I'd think a Glock would be a hell of a lot less attractive for a new shooter, who's not already used to/invested in the platform.

Let's look at WARDOG's first post:

...that means that we glock users are forced to obey the "5lb minimum-trigger pull", that is fine..until you compete with tanfoglios with 2.8lbs double action a 1lbs single..

The statement is non-sequitur. If the ruling in Italy calls for a minimum of 5lbs for all guns in Prod, than it's all guns in Prod, not just Glocks. I'm not taking a shot at the OP...on the contrary. A little clarification is simply needed.

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to dryfire my stapler.

[BayouSlide]

If there were a 5lb minimum trigger pull in USPSA Production, I'd think a Glock would be a hell of a lot less attractive for a new shooter, who's not already used to/invested in the platform.

It would be a heck of a lot less attractive for me, as well. I enjoy shooting my Glocks but I do not enjoy shooting a standard trigger on my competition guns...and do not shoot it as well, as my scores in box stock categories in the GSSF match down here pointed out recently, in case I had any doubts.

I'd probably just shoot Limited once in a while with my G34, fully load my mags and take my lumps...and probably shoot only the occasional match and miss the tight competition in Production.

Personally, I couldn't justify the additional expense and complexity of a 2011 blaster in what already is a rather expensive sport with gas and ammo component prices...I'm a Glock guy at heart and am danged happy that USPSA saw reason about the trigger pull limitations nonsense.

Wardog, you have my sympathy

[spook]

An out-of-the-box G17 is like a staple-gun.

Yes, it is. And apparently a very competitive one (Dave Sevigny)

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to dryfire my stapler.

Too bad I can't put any power tool logos on my Production gun... I'd love to shoot a DeWalt 9x19

DeWalt9x19.bmp

Edited December 6, 2007 by spook

[proraptor]

Yes I would shoot a glock still.....For some reason I can shoot a stock glock better than any other gun....Not sure what it is...

I love my G17 staple gun

[chp5]

Yes - by choice I use a 5.5 lbs connector in my Limted and Production Glocks.

The 5.5 connector can be polished smooth and the reset (which is important to me) is shorter than the 3.5 connector.

[boo radley]

The statement is non-sequitur. If the ruling in Italy calls for a minimum of 5lbs for all guns in Prod, than it's all guns in Prod, not just Glocks. I'm not taking a shot at the OP...on the contrary. A little clarification is simply needed.

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to dryfire my stapler.

(Cute, Spook)

My fault -- I misunderstood, and interpreted your response as indignation at the idea you and Flex might be somehow limited by this ruling.

This rule IS for all pistols in Production, no? But with real more traditional double-action pistols, you'd only have to deal with ONE 5-lb pull, and the rest could be super-light.

I have 3 Glocks and my favorite is a well-worn G35 that's probably around 2.5lbs, to a newish G17 that's about 3.5lbs with parts of a Sotelo kit in it. I'm happy to trade a slightly heavier (though it doesn't need to be) pull against having to 'learn' something like an SPO1, which I had, briefly. It's first pull *was* around 5lbs, by my estimate (it was an Angus'ized Shadow), but after that, man....like 1.5lbs? Amazing reset. Still, I didn't think it was enough of an advantage to put the work into overcoming the double-action 1st shot curve.

But if the Glock had to remain at > 5lbs....Ouch.

I know there are Sevigny's, etc., out there, perfectly capable of shooting with stock triggers, but I can't believe most of us mortals don't vastly prefer something a little better.

(Incidentally, by chance at the SC Sectional, I was lucky enough to end up squadded with some heavyweights, and I remember Phil Strader commenting that, over the years, his preferences were moving to slightly heavier and heavier triggers in this Ltd guns).

[proraptor]

I agree boo radley that I do prefer a nice lighter trigger (going to buy a glockworx) but if I could only use a 5lb trigger I still would pick the glock....

Ive shot some nice double actions but its really hard for me to transition between that first trigger pull and the trigger pulls after...I think thats why I shoot the glock so well

[Suburban Commando]

My Unlimited/Open/whatever Glock has a sub-3 pound trigger, but I also compete with a G17 that is stock except for a polished trigger bar. The G17 mentioned has a smooth, crisp, 5 pound break with a short reset.

I carry Glocks because they are great for that. I compete with Glocks because I carry Glocks. I would not do it the other way around, and I don't want to deal with learning any more platforms than necessary.

I've never liked DA/SA pistols much. I sort of like the Taurus 92/99s, but the single action length of pull is too short for me.

So, the answer to the question is yes.

I loves my staple gun.

[WARDOG]

Skywalker stand correct, I've had a brain farting stage, I meant a double action of 5 lbs and single about 1.5 to 2lbs.

[Flexmoney]

I know there are Sevigny's, etc., out there, perfectly capable of shooting with stock triggers, but I can't believe most of us mortals don't vastly prefer something a little better.

I just got done making that argument on another shooting forum (1911forum). A big deal was being made from the belief that special triggers were needed to be competitive. I pointed out that the upper level (SSP/Prod) shooters didn't seem to care all that much, while the shooters away from the upper end of the bell curve would probably experience a bit more benefit from better triggers.

Nobody wants a crappy trigger. Regardless, practicing good technique is required.

For the record, I've been running with a "staple-gun" like trigger. At least, that is what the chrono guys keep telling me.

[Madcap Magician]

It's not all about the weight of the trigger. Proper technique is what matters. Those that put in the time have the ability to do better. Simple correlation.... You can run a service grade trigger in anything, and still be competitive. A Glock has a very nice service trigger, in that it is consistent, breaks decently, and has a very positive reset. While a 2-3lb trigger is nice, it is not a necessity. I know at the Rogers School where they run at speed all the time, stock service pistols/duty guns are shot very well, its all about the loose nut behind the trigger.

Lesson here... Practice matters.

[shadetree]

I would.