Trubor T-1 or T-2?

[Flatland Shooter]

Getting stuff together for my next project. Time to put a new barrel in my open gun. My Nowlin barrel has served me well (over 70.000 rounds) but the accuracy is now suffering and the shots are getting longer.

Thinking long and hard about trying one of the STI Trubor barrel/comp units. I remember reading somewhere that the T-1 with one less port than the T-2 is designed for the 9x19 since it gives off a little less gas than the 38 super.

I currently use 124 gr MG JHP ahead of 8+ grains of HS-6. My current comp is a 3 port progressive and does a good job of keeping the red dot reasonably flat.

Please note that this winter, as time allows, I will be testing some slower (i.e. more gas volume) powders to see if there is a holy grail of powders for my gun.

Recommendations? One or the other? Or does it really not matter?

Thanks.

Bill

p.s. Until I can find someone that has 9mm barrel to comp alignment reamers in stock (its easier to find hens teeth), I'm not set up to use any of the fine cone style comps available.

[hdgun]

i use an S-2 comp with an AET barrel in my Caspian shorty (4.5") I think it does an great job. Dot never leaves the lens. I also use the same load as yours.

[Flatland Shooter]

i use an S-2 comp with an AET barrel in my Caspian shorty (4.5") I think it does an great job. Dot never leaves the lens. I also use the same load as yours.

Thanks for the info John. I assume you are shooting Major 9.

Also, I notice that the STI catalog, Speed Shooters Int and Brazos list these as T-1/T-2 but you and the Brownell's catalog refer to these as S-1/S-2. They are the same animal. Right?

Bill

[GeneralChang]

I've tried both and my perception was that the shorter version of the two (T1) was flatter. It could be subjective but it just felt better, tracked better etc.

[HSMITH]

Either the T or the S is a threaded comp, I don't remember which is which. One is a one piece barrel and comp, the other screws together. Cpmp is the same as far as ports go, but the two piece assembly is going to be a half inch longer and that much heavier.

I would go with the bigger comp myself. I have shot one gun with the short comp and didn't like it where I have shot one gun with the bigger comp and it was fine. I know, not much of a sample, but that is all I have been able to shoot.

Another one to consider is the Brazos version, it is the STI one piece barrel and comp blank with the comp made to Brazos specs. I just put one in a 9mm major gun for a guy and it is NICE. The feel of the shot and the dot track is almost identical to the Bedell Titanium comp I have used most. The softness is identical, the dot lift and track is identical, I couldn't tell the difference between the two shooting it side by side with my 9mm major gun. I put a couple hundred rounds through both guns in the testing, alternating to keep them reasonably cool. I am impressed enough with the Brazos unit that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. The only downside is steel comps are heavy, and I much prefer a light gun, but everything you seem to be considering is relatively the same weight.

[hdgun]

i use an S-2 comp with an AET barrel in my Caspian shorty (4.5") I think it does an great job. Dot never leaves the lens. I also use the same load as yours.

Thanks for the info John. I assume you are shooting Major 9.

Also, I notice that the STI catalog, Speed Shooters Int and Brazos list these as T-1/T-2 but you and the Brownell's catalog refer to these as S-1/S-2. They are the same animal. Right?

Bill

I am shooting Major9, as far as the Brownell's cat goes I can not say. I got mine from STI years ago but never used it till I built my 9 last year.

BTW: I shoot a Caspian and let me say it is a Tank 45 oz worth, so that might have somthing to do with it being a flat shooter.

[XRe]

I am impressed enough with the Brazos unit that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. The only downside is steel comps are heavy, and I much prefer a light gun, but everything you seem to be considering is relatively the same weight.

Funny thing is, the Brazos TruBor pattern is quite a bit lighter than the stock STI pattern. Bob showed me how he's cutting them, and there's a lot of "air" in that comp. It would be hard to compare it directly to a bull barrell w/ a Ti comp - but if you figure there's a 1/2" less material, or so, plus having the comp way hogged out.... I can't see it being much heavier than a bull w/ Ti, if any... And, you still have the added advantage of reduced erosion w/ a steel comp

I've only shot an STI cut TruBor based on the short comp, and it seemed effective enough to me...

[Flatland Shooter]

Another one to consider is the Brazos version, it is the STI one piece barrel and comp blank with the comp made to Brazos specs. I just put one in a 9mm major gun for a guy and it is NICE.

I saw that on Bob's website. I was concerned that if the T-2 had too many ports, then the Brazos version with more open area and additional ports is a step in the wrong direction. Looks like its back into consideration.

I've never shot an open gun with a "light" comp so don't know if I would like it or not. As David points out, the Brazos may not be much heavier than a bull barrel with a Ti comp. Another + for the Brazos comp.

Also Howard, when testing the Brazos T-2, do you know what gunpowder you used? Thanks everyone for the assistance.

Bill

[HSMITH]

Dave, it was heavier than my rig. Don't have specifics but I could feel it, not a huge difference but I could feel it. The shooting comparison I am talking about is JUST one target, fire two shots, watch the dot.

I also noticed that there is a ton of material taken out, and it is done REALLY well. It is without a doubt done on CNC mills, CAM generated program, and as nicely made as ANYTHING you can find.

Like I said, I was thoroughly impressed with it and would not hesitate to recommend it. On the erosion issue, I haven't burned out my TI comp yet but I know the stainless will hold up better. The way most of us treat our guns I don't think it will be an issue, the comp will likely last as long as the barrel in my gun anyway......

Edit: Bill, I shot HS-6 in both STI comps. The Brazos comp compared to my Bedell comp was done with Longshot and 3N-37.

Edited September 23, 2007 by HSMITH

[Coolduckboy]

Any information about the Pros and cons of the Bedell comp?

[yoshidaex]

Bill,

Quick question. Are the bullets you using sized .355? After reading all the posts regarding .355 and .356 dia bullets, would it be possible to use .356 bullets so you can use the barrel for just a tad longer? A cheap fix but trying to give you options.

[Kingman]

Howard can you pust weights if you still have both sittng around.

[Flatland Shooter]

Bill,

Quick question. Are the bullets you using sized .355? After reading all the posts regarding .355 and .356 dia bullets, would it be possible to use .356 bullets so you can use the barrel for just a tad longer? A cheap fix but trying to give you options.

Thats a good thought Hiro. Since this is a winter project, the .356" bullets may help with the accuracy issue until I have the time to do the barrel switch. Just picked up a case of MG 124 gr JHP (.355") but they won't go stale.

Thanks.

Bill

[al503]

picked up a case of MG 124 gr JHP (.355") but they won't go stale.

I started out using MG JHP's but switched to zeros when the MG's mic'd out at .354." 9mm Zeros mic out at .3555" and their 38 supers mic out between .3555" to .356"

I got these measurements with 2 different calipers.

[Kingman]

that .354 measurement is interesting. I am going to have to do some measuring on them.

[Radical Precision Designs]

I like playing with compensators. I have been doing it since the early '70's when we had nothing better to do and the 1911 kick was starting to bloom. I have attentively eavesdropped on the different designs and tried to figure why they were made one way or the other. I always wondered if the perceived performance had more to do with name recognition than actual performance. After all, if someone came up with something that worked it wouldn't be noticed untill somebody with a big name started to win matches with it, even if there was somthing better in the market but was not a better known name/designer. After a while the only comps available were those that you could buy over the counter "ready made", and most pistolsmiths did not bother pursuing newer designs that might woork better. Although there are a few pistolsmiths that have continued the research, most of their comps are not made in "CNC Production" mode. That means you can not get them over the counter for the expected "average price".

But now we have the Tru-Bor "blanks"... Chalk one for the good guys!!!! By doing this STI has opened a new door to researchers with a lower budget, especially not CNC dependent. (Nothing wrong with CNC, but in order to make CNC work you need production numbers to mitigate the costs involved in design, programming and tooling. So once a design has been embeded on CNC, usually some time passes before it is updated.) A big advantage of Tru-Bor blanks is the lesser need for "rectifying reamers".

As for the advantage of S-1 and S-2 ported comp design from STI, it is a matter of what your are looking on your guns behaviour and the size of your wrists. If you are referring to these designs in a factory built set-up then you are talking Tru-Bor barrels only. If you have plans of using the S-1 or S-2 in a barrel other than STI then you will need the threaded kind, which most likely will be the S-2 as available from Brownell's. You will gain an additional 3/8" to 1/2" barrel length which is not necessarily bad, but you will retain the added weight from the barrel. Some shooters in search of "lightness" will object to that, others will welcome it.

When looking at the muzzle control issue there are a few "ingredients" to consider. Before we came to use compensators to tame muzzle jump we availed ourselves of "heavier/bull" barrels for help. Now we play with lighter barrels and even lighter compensators in search of the holy grail of performance. Somewhere in between there is the best anwer for your needs.

The real point to consider is not whether one port more or less in a similar design is better than the other. That would be easy enough to find by trying both in the same barrel, if this was possible. But then the possibility of testing different powders, would also require the use of both comps for a fair comparison. The answer is really easy, when you remove the "opinion part" of several observers with differently arrived at perceptions. You want flatter ?? or do you want softer ?? or, perhaps a combination of both ?? Or, as of lately, perhaps you want a gun that weighs only 10 ounces but performs like a 4 lbs gun? They say that if you try hard anything is possible. Well ... sometimes with what you have at hand is just not possible.

But you have the right idea. You want to experiment and "micro-manage" the available gases from different powders this winter. Realistically looking at it then the three ported version of the "S (STI) (2) design should yield the more potential, regardless of the separate/threaded item or the Tru-Bor version. Just let us know what you found next spring.

[Kingman]

Venry I remember some designs you came up with a while back. Have you come up with any new ideas in comps.

[Radical Precision Designs]

Venry I remember some designs you came up with a while back. Have you come up with any new ideas in comps.

Yes, that would be my "Hyper-Jet Comp System". I am very busy building them both for 2011's and Glocks. I must warn you they are not inexpensive to build. But then again it is not just a compensator, it is a "system" that incorporates the actual barrel as part of it, not just something you screw on the last 3/8" of it. Without being biased, it is the most effective set-up I have found and tested, bar none.

On the other hand, I have been creating/whittling some nice conventional comps out of the Tru-Bor blanks (for folks that can only afford conventional) ... Who said you could build light comps only out of titanium ???

Edited to say/write that some of the conventional comps I have been building have some design concepts not that far away from the S-2 design from STI.

Edited September 23, 2007 by Radical Precision Designs

[Kingman]

They hyper jet system definitely looked incredible, and sounded like an ingenious idea. Do you have a video of someone shooting it.

I am going to try to spend some time this winter messing with some comp designs and see what I can do. I don't have the skill or equipment to even touch your hyper jet system. I am definitely impressed with that idea.

[Flatland Shooter]

I started out using MG JHP's but switched to zeros when the MG's mic'd out at .354." 9mm Zeros mic out at .3555" and their 38 supers mic out between .3555" to .356"

I got these measurements with 2 different calipers.

Checked a dozen or so MG 9mm 124 JHP and consistently read .354". Had a handful of Zero 125 JHPs which are all .355".

Interesting.

Are all MG .355" bullets actually .354"? Should I be concerned? (My accuracy problems began when I was still shooting the Zero bullets, so I still think the barrel is about shot out, but the .354" MG may not be helping.)

Bill

[Kingman]

hmm, that has me curious now.

[1hotrod]

Hmm, I just picked a case of MG 124 JHP .355, when I mic'ed several of them, they read .355-3555. It didn't seem undersized at all.

[Jon Merricks]

I have posted some info here about my preference. I have used both in 9 major; the T-1 is what I like. At the time I was using hs-7 but I don't think that is still available. I was running 4 small ports in the barrel. The trubor T-1 will give you the overall length +or- of many of the short guns on the market while still staying with the 5" platform. The best running one was when I took the T-2 and cut the end ports off and milled holes in the sides of the last port, ended up being 3 up and 1 on each side. This made it the same length as the T-1. Been overseas for about 18 months so not too sure what has changed since then. But if I were to get back into open I would go back with the T-1 or the cut T-2.

[scirocco38s]

I have posted some info here about my preference. I have used both in 9 major; the T-1 is what I like. At the time I was using hs-7 but I don't think that is still available. I was running 4 small ports in the barrel. The trubor T-1 will give you the overall length +or- of many of the short guns on the market while still staying with the 5" platform. The best running one was when I took the T-2 and cut the end ports off and milled holes in the sides of the last port, ended up being 3 up and 1 on each side. This made it the same length as the T-1. Been overseas for about 18 months so not too sure what has changed since then. But if I were to get back into open I would go back with the T-1 or the cut T-2.

Jon, I just finished getting a majot 9 setup going and did the same thing with the trubor t-1 comp. I milled the end brake baffle off of it and put three hybrid holes in the barrel and tried 3 or 4 powders. Long shot couldn't make major, but hs-6 could. But the real deal is 3n38 and SP-2. 9 grains of either of those will make that 121 montana scoot. 173 pf was not a problem and SDor ES were excellent. Dot tracking was very good and no pressure signs on the brass. I dont like the setup as well as my SV IMM gun but when I shoot at places that getting your brass backis difficult because of sand and dirt, this gun will fill the bill. If I had to I could make this gun my match gun as far as performance and reliability has been there almost from the beginning, but I still prefer 38s for practice and major matches. By the way we are having the sectional this weekend, hope all is well and hope to see you back in the country soon. Keep us informed and talk with you later.

[Jon Merricks]

Thanks Martin could be back sooner than I had hoped. Tommy do the work? Post a pic if you can