Smith 629 Trail Boss 3" .44Mag

[G-ManBart]

Hey all,

The wife and I are planning some trips to bear country soon and it got me thinking. My wife said "will your guns stop a bear". Well, I've got a couple of .357s but that's not going to cut it. Then I told her I'd have to buy another gun and she said "I'm not going anywhere there might be bears if you don't have a gun that can stop them." Granted, any handgun is pretty weak when it comes to bears, but there's only so much you can do right? So I started looking around and saw the S&W 629 Trail Boss with a 3" barrel and thought that might be the ticket. Anybody here have any experience with them? They come with or without Magna-ports and I was curious how much velocity you lose with that short tube and then add the ports. I'm far from a big guy (31" waist) so I'm limited in what I can carry comfortably concealed....any thoughts would be appreciated. Thx,

[blkbrd]

JM2C

Unless you are going to Alaska think about 2 leg bears

Grew up hunting and hiking in New Mexico and never had a bear problem, although I did have a couple of problems with 2 legged POS.

For Black bear a good 240-300gr. 44 mag. will be plenty, I prefer my 5 1/2" Ruger SBH single action. For desert/mountain carry now days I may go the Nugent route of 10mm Glock. Never liked the double action Smith's as they are heavy for the power.

A 3 1/2 in barrel with porting will wreck your ears if you ever have to set off a round without plugs or muffs.

[revchuck]

Bart - I can't comment on the Trail Boss, but you might want to check out a 4" 629 Mountain Gun. It's basically a 4" 629 with a tapered barrel, and weighs a hair more than a M19, and less than a M686. It's also a lot easier to find a holster for a 4" N frame than for a 3" N frame.

Using a good pancake holster, it's only marginally harder to conceal an N frame than a K frame. If you're willing to use an IWB, an N frame is easier to conceal than a G19 or a 1911.

[G-ManBart]

JM2C

Unless you are going to Alaska think about 2 leg bears

Grew up hunting and hiking in New Mexico and never had a bear problem, although I did have a couple of problems with 2 legged POS.

For Black bear a good 240-300gr. 44 mag. will be plenty, I prefer my 5 1/2" Ruger SBH single action. For desert/mountain carry now days I may go the Nugent route of 10mm Glock. Never liked the double action Smith's as they are heavy for the power.

A 3 1/2 in barrel with porting will wreck your ears if you ever have to set off a round without plugs or muffs.

Maybe I should have said grizzly country rather than bear country I already carry for the 2 leg bears...lol...but I'm limited by agency policies to "approved" weapons, none of which would be suitable for bears. With that said, we've been told that for hiking/camping/hunting protection, it's okay to carry something more suitable...so, that's why I was thinking of a .44 mag.

[EricW]

Velocity drops quick with reduced bbl length in the 44 mag. I had a heck of a time getting anything near book velocities with a 5 1/2" Redhawk. You're going to need to reload and use a faster powder. Traditional slow-burn powders for hunting loads flat out won't work. The bullet exits the barrel before the powder burns up. I tried using H110, but my velocities basically plateaued and I couldn't get any more muzzle velocity (but I *was* getting increasing chamber pressure based on the brass readings).

Titegroup works well and generates better velocities out of a short barrel without generating excessive pressure. You can also burn up the excess in your IPSC pistol. I settled on about 11 gr of Titegroup under a 300 gr. Sierra FP, which generates just under 1100 fps IIRC out of a 5 1/2" bbl.

Personally, I won't use a ported gun for defense because I want to preserve what hearing I have. That and you've effectively made the barrel even shorter with the ports.

I'm actually going to a 40 2011 for backwoods carry. I'm going to buy new brass and load it up to 10mm with some FMJs alternated with JHPs. Near 44 mag performance with a hell of a sight more ammo on board. You could probably use your existing IPSC pistol if the chamber is well supported.

[G-ManBart]

Velocity drops quick with reduced bbl length in the 44 mag. I had a heck of a time getting anything near book velocities with a 5 1/2" Redhawk. You're going to need to reload and use a faster powder. Traditional slow-burn powders for hunting loads flat out won't work. The bullet exits the barrel before the powder burns up. I tried using H110, but my velocities basically plateaued and I couldn't get any more muzzle velocity (but I *was* getting increasing chamber pressure based on the brass readings).

Titegroup works well and generates better velocities out of a short barrel without generating excessive pressure. You can also burn up the excess in your IPSC pistol. I settled on about 11 gr of Titegroup under a 300 gr. Sierra FP, which generates just under 1100 fps IIRC out of a 5 1/2" bbl.

Personally, I won't use a ported gun for defense because I want to preserve what hearing I have. That and you've effectively made the barrel even shorter with the ports.

I'm actually going to a 40 2011 for backwoods carry. I'm going to buy new brass and load it up to 10mm with some FMJs alternated with JHPs. Near 44 mag performance with a hell of a sight more ammo on board. You could probably use your existing IPSC pistol if the chamber is well supported.

All good points. I'd considered a Smith 610 with the 3 7/8" barrel...loaded pretty warm that would be like a .41Mag or close. Problem with them is the price that they're going for now. I'm leaning against the ports since if I have to use it I won't be worried about recoil! That and the short barrel already loses so much over the longer tubes.

Edited August 20, 2007 by G-ManBart

[EricW]

Bart,

A 357 loaded with hot flat points is hardly a slouch in the woods. You're not having to break through a lot of bone with bears. You just need penetration. I think short 44's are overrated, but that's just my opinion. I'm switching guns because the energy loss of my 5 1/2 over the 8 3/8" standard barely makes it worth the hassle.

E

[L9X25]

For desert/mountain carry now days I may go the Nugent route of 10mm Glock. Never liked the double action Smith's as they are heavy for the power.

+1

I think that I would rather have 18 rounds of hot 10mm than 5 or 6 of just about anything else.

[shred]

I had a .44 mag Trail Boss for a while. Magnaported, 3" barrel, lanyard-ring grip,... I traded it for a 3" 610 and don't regret it at all. Shooting the thing indoors was like lighting off flash-bangs, and even outdoors it wasn't very fun to shoot. Get at least a 4" barrel. The Glock 29 makes for a nice light pistol with some serious punch.

[G-ManBart]

I had a .44 mag Trail Boss for a while. Magnaported, 3" barrel, lanyard-ring grip,... I traded it for a 3" 610 and don't regret it at all. Shooting the thing indoors was like lighting off flash-bangs, and even outdoors it wasn't very fun to shoot. Get at least a 4" barrel. The Glock 29 makes for a nice light pistol with some serious punch.

I guess my first thought of a 3 7/8" barreled 610 wasn't so far off then!

[shred]

Here's a very small amount of chrono data from the Trail Boss:

Winchester 210gr Silvertips ~1140 fps, 240 PF

CCI 44 Special 200gr JHP - ~820 fps, 165 PF

Federal 180gr 44mag ~1420 fps, 255 PF

Doesn't suck by any means-- most of the factory 10mms seem to go ~200 PF in a Glock 29, but it holds 10+ shots..

[sideshowbob]

Excellent gun. I am a big fan of 3" revolvers. This gun is really handy. You can use heavy 44 mags or 44 special depending on the nature of the threat.

Although 44 mag loads can be a pain, 44 special is a pleasure to shoot.

Edited August 21, 2007 by sideshowbob

[EricW]

My solution to the problem:

[G-ManBart]

Here's a very small amount of chrono data from the Trail Boss:

Winchester 210gr Silvertips ~1140 fps, 240 PF

CCI 44 Special 200gr JHP - ~820 fps, 165 PF

Federal 180gr 44mag ~1420 fps, 255 PF

Doesn't suck by any means-- most of the factory 10mms seem to go ~200 PF in a Glock 29, but it holds 10+ shots..

Interesting data. I just looked up Cor-Bon's Hunter 10mm 180gr load. They list it at 1320 (probably 5" barrel) which is 237pf...not bad. Even if the shorter barrel on a 610 was getting 1200-1250 it would be pretty stout. I'd like to see the numbers out of the Glock 29 as well...might be interesting. I may have a deal on a brand new 610 with an unfluted cylinder...mmmm nice!

[blkbrd]

You could also buy a 40 limited gun and chamber it for 10mm.

[JohnRodriguez]

IF your not willing to step up to a 44 mag or 45 colt revo then stick to your 357's. If you go with a 610 and intend on loading then you'll need to get a corbin cannular cutting tool, and even then the bullets were never meant to be shoot a grizzly bear and make any type of penetration. here's some of my personal 357 load data.

180 gr LBT hard cast/ 15.0 gr lil-gun 1500fps

158 GDHP/ 15.5 gr lil-gun, 1350fps

125 GDHP/ 18.5 gr lil-gun, 1920 fps (great coyote load)

These all are out of a 6 shot 627, with a lot of meat around the cases. and for the 180 gr LBT in a different gun would load 13.5 gr of lil-gun. The 158 GD is a stardard load and would not try the 125 GD load unless you had T/C or a freedom arms or a 6 shot 627.

[vrmn1]

What ever gun you go with go with hard cast bullets. Or very stout jacketed.

I would agree with Mr Rodriquez.

The main thing is to penetrate. You have to break bone hit and/or the brain or spine.

A 44 or 45 Colt with a 4' barrel would be better but your 357 if it is a strong gun would work.

Again, what ever gun you go with go with hard cast bullets. Or very stout jacketed.

[Tom E]

I used to live in NW NM. and a couple of us looked into bears and handguns. It seemed that a 4" 44 mag with 300 gr hard cast lead was the minimum. Anything less seemed more likely to piss them of than stop them (even with ten in the mag). Tom

[enoon]

No personal experience. Synopsis from two who have bleed from bears: be able to operate and control the gun with one hand, while subjected to blood, saliva, being batted around, and having been injured. As one observed, penetrating to the brain via the inside of the mouth is not that difficult. I would tend to stay away from a compensated or Magna-ported guns. The thought of more blast from the gun that close to my eyes... Unlikely you will have trouble. Have a great trip.

[G-ManBart]

IF your not willing to step up to a 44 mag or 45 colt revo then stick to your 357's. If you go with a 610 and intend on loading then you'll need to get a corbin cannular cutting tool, and even then the bullets were never meant to be shoot a grizzly bear and make any type of penetration. here's some of my personal 357 load data.

180 gr LBT hard cast/ 15.0 gr lil-gun 1500fps

158 GDHP/ 15.5 gr lil-gun, 1350fps

125 GDHP/ 18.5 gr lil-gun, 1920 fps (great coyote load)

These all are out of a 6 shot 627, with a lot of meat around the cases. and for the 180 gr LBT in a different gun would load 13.5 gr of lil-gun. The 158 GD is a stardard load and would not try the 125 GD load unless you had T/C or a freedom arms or a 6 shot 627.

Oh, I'm willing to go with a .44...that's why I posted the thread....to see what people's experience has been with the short barrel versions.

It's kind of interesting that you're getting more velocity out of your .357 with a 180gr bullet than Shred was getting out of his .44 Mag with 180gr bullets....that must be the short barrel taking it's toll.

[JohnRodriguez]

it's a 5.5" barrel with the cylinder cut for heartco moonclips. One other thing nice about it is I have two cylinders loaded with shot capsules when I do carry this gun in the gila forest in southwest NM.

For my 45 colt mountain gun, I have it loaded with 300 gr GDHP, these are the bullets with the thick jackets for the 454 that speer makes. I have shot some feral hogs down in antalope wells area with this bullets, and the hogs look like baby hippos down there. I'll have to pull a bullet/case apart to see what type/amount of powder I used for this combo. I'm thinking that I used VVn320. I do know that it is only about 1000fps.

[G-ManBart]

I just rechecked the Cor-Bon site and the 10mm Hunter 180gr load was listed at 1320fps out of a 4.6" barrel....not bad.

[hopalong]

If I had to depend on a handgun to ward off suspisious varmints (Bars, as we say down here )

I would not want any thing smaller than a 10mm or a .41 (657 or 57 in a smith).....and they do make one in montain gun too!!

Many people don't remember the .41 remington Mag but it is a potent dude that fits perfectly in it's own niche.

Hop

[G-ManBart]

If I had to depend on a handgun to ward off suspisious varmints (Bars, as we say down here )

I would not want any thing smaller than a 10mm or a .41 (657 or 57 in a smith).....and they do make one in montain gun too!!

Many people don't remember the .41 remington Mag but it is a potent dude that fits perfectly in it's own niche.

Hop

Yeah, I've always kind of wanted a .41 Mag....definitely underrated.

[revchuck]

I've got a cherry 4" nickle M57-0. Eat your hearts out. It's my BBQ gun.