Religious Shooter Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 I think there's too much variation in equipment rules for HM. I wanted to have these polls so (hopefully) the various MD's out there can have an idea on what "we" want in terms of equipment rules. Of course anybody can vote. If you shoot HM… great. But if you don't or don't plan on shooting HM I'd like to make a request... vote as if you are going to shoot HM. Vote as if you are going to spend the money and you are the one that's going to take the time to shoot and prepare for HM. It's awfully easy to say HM pistol should have a 200 PF minimum. That HM shotgun require full-power shotgun slugs out of a pump. Have 8 round limits for pistol, etc… when you aren't going to shoot HM. Pretend that it's your shoulder that's gonna get pummeled. Rules: DPMS: DPMS Tri Gun Challenge (2006) PNW3G: R&R Racing Multigun Challenge 2007 USPSA RM3G: Rocky Mountain 3 Gun 2007 SMM3G: Superstition Mountain 3 Gun 2007 FB: Fort Benning 2007 Thanks. NOTE: The software only allows 3 questions so there are multiple polls on the subject. I've tried to limit the choices to what's currently being done between the different matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Just a quick note - USPSA rules don't mandate a pump (although that is an *option* that a match director can invoke for a specific match...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Check some previous posts......The different matches have different rules for alot of the divisions and for some other stuff as well. That being said, I think He-man is the most dicked with division of them all.......even the 'originators' of the rules went over board with the last match they had. I guess simple is easiest. 12 ga Pump shot gun, 45acp (if ya wanna limited rounds, fine), 308win (or sim) rifle You got that?....ok you can play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 I don't shoot HM, so take my comments for what they're worth. Standardization is good, to a point. But some matches would lose their uniqueness if everyone had to standardize. For instance, MGM Ironman would no longer be MGM Ironman. It's a very unique match. I wouldn't want every match I attend to be like MGM (I don't think I have that much energy), but I sure wouldn't want to force some other rules on Mike and the boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Metal Only Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 This seems to be a touchy subject. I shoot nothing but heavy metal only and it gets frustating from match to match cause the rules change so often. When I first started shooting I went straight into heavy metal. I've been to matches that say pumps only, some say auto are ok. I did cmmg who said I could only load 8 round instead of 10. I just entered the fort smith ark match and was told a can't use my xd because it was a double stack, it had to be a single stack 1911. Now the 55 and older want to use optics on thier rifle. I think the rules should be more consistant, but like I was told before. If rules didn't change we would never have gotten Heavy Metal. I just wish they would change the scoring for optic over iron sights. It's just not fair!!!!!!!! WWWHHAAAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted August 8, 2007 Author Share Posted August 8, 2007 Just a quick note - USPSA rules don't mandate a pump (although that is an *option* that a match director can invoke for a specific match...) I noticed that. But AFAIK all the USPSA matches I've shot (I didn't enter HM) pretty much required a pump in HM. In any of the Nationals... have they allowed autos in HM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Metal Only Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Not that I've seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbs007 Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 Making it simple should iron out differences. I don't really mind the different rules, just keep it fair on what equipment can be used to keep everybody on the same playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 The main thing is that match orgainizers should make it clear what the rules are up front. Not much worse than to pay a bunch of money and travel half way across the country, to find that the equipment you brought puts you in Open! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I voted for pump for the sole and simple reason that divisions should be distinct and different, otherwise there is no point in their existence. Why allow semi-auto shotguns when 3 divisions already do? I'm less concerned with power factors, not so much that I disagree with them as I fear that they will not be enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I seem to be with the majority on all polls with the exception of shotgun. I just don't understand why a semi-auto pistol and rifle are He Manly and a semi-auto 12 guage is not. Limiting shotgun to pump would make sense in a division which required a revolver and a lever action rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Limiting shotgun to pump would make sense in a division which required a revolver and a lever action rifle. ...and you say that like it's a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Limiting shotgun to pump would make sense in a division which required a revolver and a lever action rifle. ...and you say that like it's a bad thing. I am with you. Pump only. Who can complain? Few years back, $200 at Walleyworld would buy the finest pump shotgun known to man: the Remington 870 (and it came with an extra barrel). For $20 from CDNN you could buy a mag extension that has worked perfectly for me. Keep HM pump only please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Limiting shotgun to pump would make sense in a division which required a revolver and a lever action rifle. ...and you say that like it's a bad thing. Not at all! I'm good with the pump, revolver, lever action rifle division, but can we skip playing dress up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Trying to undo the thread drift I caused, I'd go with pump only, tested 500 PF, and 8+1. Recoil management and working the action are meaningful parts of the challenge; if all you have to do is pull the trigger with little muzzle displacement at the shot, it's a whole other ball game. I think PF should be tested because we test it for the other guns - no reason not to. This is theoretical for me at this point - I don't have a suitable rifle. But if I could find some 12 round mags for my 96/11 Schmidt-Rubin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Metal Only Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I seem to be with the majority on all polls with the exception of shotgun. I just don't understand why a semi-auto pistol and rifle are He Manly and a semi-auto 12 guage is not. Limiting shotgun to pump would make sense in a division which required a revolver and a lever action rifle. Heavy Metal is, I think suppost to be tough guy stuff. And I would like to see a pump assault rifle, or for that matter a pump pistol. You may be one to something.LoL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 pump only, tested 500 PF, and 8+1. Recoil management and working the action are meaningful parts of the challenge; if all you have to do is pull the trigger with little muzzle displacement at the shot, it's a whole other ball game. I think PF should be tested because we test it for the other guns - no reason not to. Agree we should test PF. The Brits manage to do it w/ their shotguns - why not the USA too? If we end up w/ NO chrono for slugs, then, well, I declare MAJOR - and who can tell me what pump works 100% with the Aguila mini slugs?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted August 9, 2007 Author Share Posted August 9, 2007 Winchester 1300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 Bump. In light of the new USPSA rules on HM... Please vote if you haven't already. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 (edited) I vote that topics that haven't had posts on them for more than 4mos. can't be brought back to life Trapr Oh, damn I just perpetuated this thing..............................DOH!!!!! Seriously, the easiest thing to do is have a capacity restriction prior to the start, like 9 in the gun, after the start ,no restriction, placing a statement like the gun can only hold 9 rounds, is not realistic, plugging the tube does not solve the problem. How do you enforce that with guns that can Ghost load, or not. And having RO's count rounds while they're being fired is just silly, they have enough things to worry about. Have an RO watch the loading of the gun prior to the start, and then once the buzzer goes off, who cares................Oh yeah and 12ga. pump guns ONLY. Edited February 20, 2008 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ammo Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I vote that topics that haven't had posts on them for more than 4mos. can't be brought back to life Trapr Oh, damn I just perpetuated this thing..............................DOH!!!!! Seriously, the easiest thing to do is have a capacity restriction prior to the start, like 9 in the gun, after the start ,no restriction, placing a statement like the gun can only hold 9 rounds, is not realistic, plugging the tube does not solve the problem. How do you enforce that with guns that can Ghost load, or not. And having RO's count rounds while they're being fired is just silly, they have enough things to worry about. Have an RO watch the loading of the gun prior to the start, and then once the buzzer goes off, who cares................Oh yeah and 12ga. pump guns ONLY. Shotgun capacity You hit the nail on the head! Start with a fixed number of rounds, build it in to the stage description. I do that at our local matches, every time I make the stages. It works. Jim M ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I have good ideas every once on awhile!! Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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