_ High hit factor

[Detlef]

NOTE from moderator: This topic was spun-off from another because of its side-discussion of how "high" hit factors are determined and used by USPSA.

there is a misconception that a single person sets the 100%. It is my understanding that the *100%* hit factor in the data base is in actuality an average over some of the best scores and not a single score. Just because you show *100%* for a classifier does by all means not imply that you set the record, it doesn't even mean that your score is included in this average!!!

--Detlef

PS Sorry to pull you down....

Edited March 27, 2003 by Erik Warren

[ErikW]

I don't get it.

USPSA: "The stage maximums are calculated from scores of the top shooters and are themselves 'averages' of the very best shooters on that stage. Generally, the top 10 scores are averaged to find the maximum hit factor used in the calculation. "

So I didn't have the highest hit factor, I merely met or exceeded the average of the best ten? That average may be my 9.0 or it may be only 8.25, but it's not higher than the 9.0 I shot or I'd have less than 100%. Have I got this right?

I think my other method of achieving a 100% classifier is easier to figure out, but harder to do.

[Detlef]

you've got it right Eric. On top of it, USPSA does not adjust their *100%* record every month, but only when they see fit. At 2000 Area 4, the top 10 or so finishers in the classifier stage *all* received a *100%* entry, and the *100%* number on file has *still* not been adjusted!

No, your method is not good enough in practice. People send in plain incorrect numbers, e.g. How should one deal with a 3.2 sec El Presidente sent in for M Joe Average? The way they do it only Joe is affected (he gets 100%), not the entire data base. Good call, IMHO.

--Detlef

[ErikW]

Detlef, I meant my other method of netting a 100% classifier is to win a USPSA Tournament.

Icer and Bonedaddy, if people are going to use this forum to compare their classifiers, you are going to need to specify the division you shot.

I was going to edit my post to leave the crux of the matter, details of 99-08, but I think this thread might be educational.

[Detlef]

now I see... That's indeed the preferred method! It might take me a few more y to implement it....(if ever).

--Detlef

[Kevin Kline]

I know what Pat and everyone are saying when they talk about publishing the HHF, but you still have to shoot it and have the skill to get that score or it ain't happening. At least at the clubs I shoot at in the Tampa Bay area, everyone is pretty fair on shooting and scoring classifiers.

You get to shoot the classifier one time and unless you have a letter from God, you won't be shooting that classifier again. This is done to stop the Grandbagging. I realize that other clubs don't do this, but I wish they would because then we could publish the HHF and there wouldn't be all this crap going on.

I like the idea of being able to know when I go home where my % was for this classifier. If they are only shot once and not allowed to be shot until you get the score you want, then you will have to have the skill to make the score or you don't make it, whether you know what the HHF is or not.

It's a shame someone won't make this a rule and try to stop it. I do believe Michael Voigt is trying and doing good things to change things for the shooter.

Kevin/IPSC Supercop

[Nemesis Lead]

Note: Merged topics.

I have heard so many conflicting things about how a USPSA high hit factor is determined, how often it changes, how it differs for divisions, etc.. It makes my head spin.

Can anyone definitavely explain this? Maybe this could be a sticky as well.

I am wondering:

1) What matches determine the HHF? Level 3 only?

2) Is the HHF calculated seperately for all divisions (Limited and L10 seem to be almost the same, for example)?

3) How often are HHFs changed? Once a year?

4) Does the very highest score on record become the HHF? Folks routinely report shooting more than 100% on classifiers here which makes me doubt this.

5) Is the a process for verifying HHFs?

6) Did I forget to ask a good question?

Thanks in advance.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Flexmoney

[Corey]

i beleive they are based off of GM scores at Nationals. Its ideally the best of the best in each division. b/c division can have drastic differences, the same classifier could have dramatically different HHFs for different divisions- except SS and L-10, those are still the same.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Corey

[Fireant]

I've been told they take the stage description and on the first full moon after the nationals they sacrafice an armadillo and the first numbers they see are the HHF for that stage. There was also mention about dancing and such, but the mental image made me quit listening anymore.

[Corey]

I've been told they take the stage description and on the first full moon after the nationals they sacrafice an armadillo and the first numbers they see are the HHF for that stage. There was also mention about dancing and such, but the mental image made me quit listening anymore.

I forgot about the 'dillos!

[XRe]

The actual answer is: it depends. Generally speaking, they try to get the stage shot at a Nationals or Area match that will have a number of GMs in attendance in each division. They use those scores as the basis. There was talk that top scores were "averaged" to come up with a HHF, but then we saw things like Can You Count where clearly the HHF (for several divisions) was based on exactly one score in one division. Some of the very new ones seemingly were not shot at a major match - no idea how they came up with those scores.

The rumor was that, on some of the timed fire standards, the 100% mark was set at 100% of points without any evidence that the score had been attained by anyone - or that 100% was set by opinion of several GMs, not by actual performance. I don't know that scores still exist from that long ago (would've been '98 and before) to even begin to double check those rumors.

[bbbean]

I've been told they take the stage description and on the first full moon after the nationals they sacrafice an armadillo and the first numbers they see are the HHF for that stage. There was also mention about dancing and such, but the mental image made me quit listening anymore.

No, no, no. That was under the 2008 rulebook. Under the current rulebook (2008 as modified by NROI and BOD), the armadillo sacrifice has been replaced by swinging a dead chicken three times over your head and burying a black cat under a GM's front door step.

[Nemesis Lead]

LOL! Awesome responses guys.

This makes things a bit clearer, but I am getting the sense that USPSA may not have a standard methodology that it uses all the time.

[Chris iliff]

A person would think that someone in the know would write a nice little article for Front Sight. I've heard so many things over the years, I do wonder if a chicken ritual and some clogging is involved?

[gunracer38]

Even when you shoot a classifier very fast. When you check the Gm's time you will find you are slow.

[Flexmoney]

There is an official set of dice...made by EGW. They roll the dice to get a high hit factor.

(There are prior threads on this topic.)