Looking For A Few Good Ro's....

[BDH]

Since we have lots of very qualified range staff hanging around here, I thought I would let you know that USPSA is looking for a few good RO's to help us put on the FGN/3 Gun, and Race Gun Nats this year. Evidently there are still some staff openings, so if you like making the calls here in the BE forum, you now have a chance to join us on the range!!

Staff apps are on the USPSA website, and are due into Sedro by April 15th. I hope to see you there.....

VP/Shooter Grrl - I realize this is not a rules question, so move this if necessary.

[Shooter Grrl]

Since we have lots of very qualified range staff hanging around here

Too funny - they don't WANT me...

I've NEVER taken an RO class

[BigDave]

Since i'm rather new to this, I'm going to go ahead and ask what might be a silly question (kinda like making a two bid in euchre)...

does one have to be a certified RO or have taken the class(es) to do this? if not, i'd be interested.

[dminor]

I would be very surprised to find out that our members would want uncertified staff to RO at Nationals or for that matter, at Area matches, who were not a certified RO/CRO/RM. I also believe that Point Series matches should have certified staff. At area 3 last year, Arnie Christianson, the area 3 director, made an unpopular decision to not use any staff that was not currently certified. He lost about 1/3 of his staff, but others stepped up. I think this is an excellent decision, as area matches are a prelude to the Nationals and to the next World Shoot. Our organization has some of the best range staff to be found. It is to bad that more people do not want to step up to the plate and make a difference at all of our matches. A job well done on the range can be more than just shooting a good match.

[ErikW]

For sure they only want NROI-certified, current Range Officers and Chief Range Officers.

[Shooter Grrl]

First, I could care less about certification. I want RO's that are knowledgable, FRIENDLY and have some logic and common sense. And yes, I feel that ALL of those are greatly lacking in a lot of "official" RO's. Too many times, still, we're getting RO's that feel their sole duty is to screw the shooter.

Second, who the hell wants to spend YEARS getting certified?!? Change the system to allow experienced shooters to just take the tests and get their certification. I bet you'll find all of a sudden you're cadre of "certified" people increases dramatically.

[BigDave]

not just in shooting, but in many things, "certified" doesn't amount to a whole lot.

{thread drift} Now, I do think that the RM and CRO's should be certified, especially for Nationals. RO's, not necessarily. I think that there alot of qualified persons who could serve as RO or CRO, who don't necessarily have the "certifed" status. But, this is only my opinion.

[Flexmoney]

The RO class is worth it. Doesn't matter how much experience you have.

It only takes a weekend.

Dave, there is one near you this weekend.

[Shooter Grrl]

I'm taking the ONLY RO class offered in the area in the last three years. It's scheduled for 4-19 and 4-20 - and guess who is attending with me? The Arbitrator hisself

[Mistral404]

I just finished the RO class with Arnie. He was a great instructor.

Arnie emphasis was on the very positive aspects of the job. 1) Safety 2)Knowledge of the rules or how to look the rule up, and 3) A POSITIVE ATTITUDE!!!

His teaching stlye is straight forward and enjoyable. He is a strict about the range commands and for good reason. I believe is projects the attitude he wants of his ROs i.e., make it safe and enjoyable.

It only took a day and a half for the class.

[John Heiter]

I'd be curious to know how many of the board regulars are NROI Level I RO's, CRO's, etc. I've only been shooting IPSC for a year and a half now but I took the Level I class from Troy McManus last year and I would recommend it to anyone.

I won't argue that there aren't plenty of shooters out there with fifteen years of experience who know the rules better than I do and would probably make a better RO than I do. That kind of experience and exposure to real shooting scenarios can't be duplicated in any classroom. At the same time, I've seen some of those shooters with a lot of experience make the wrong call on an AD versus unsafe gun handling, "Failure to Engage" penalties, etc.

The Level I class won't replace 15 years of experience but it will expose the participants to as many tricky situations as it can in the time allotted and it will give the RO enough of a familiarization with the rule book that they can quickly and easily look up the answer to most range questions and they will know the chain of command if something arises that they can't deal with.

I think you get a lot out of the class no matter how much experience you have and it's a nice thing to do to contribute to your club as well. It's actually a lot of fun to spend a weekend with a group of people who care enough about shooting that they're willing to pay their own money to sit in a classroom for two days learning about the rules. Those are my kind of people.

I'm going for my CRO next but I'm pretty sure that one of these days I'm going to take the Level I class again as a refresher and I'll probably still get a lot out of it.

[hoser]

I certainly feel that only NROI certified ROs and CROs should be allowed to officiate at major matches. Too many times I have seen bad calls made by "experienced" and "knowledgeable" ROs who have not bothered to take an RO class or who have not bothered to look at a rule book since the yellow edition. NROI has gone out of their way to teach that RO'ing is not an "us vs. them" affair. We are all shooters and some of us like to RO as well. It is our way of giving back to the sport and we care enough about the sport to become certified and stand up and do our job using our knowledge of the rules as we learned them by taking a class.

It is too bad that there are not more RO classes offered, but I can speak for myself and say that I traveled 6 hours one-way to take my RO class and a year later traveled the same 6 hours to take a CRO class and that the time was well spent.

Now, I have been a certified NROI Range Master/Instructor for six years and the only excuse for not having an RO class in your local area for three years is that no one from the club stepped forward to organize a class. NROI does not do the scheduling for RO/CRO classes, it is up to some in the club/section to organize the class and contact Sedro Woolley to schedule the class. Once Kim at Sedro gets the request for a class, she will assign an Instructor to teach the class.

[BigDave]

Flex - would love to go, but the Hoosier 3 For All is this weekend. Will be there with BDH, Bill Seevers and a few other Buckeye's. Why won't you be there (at the 3 gun) or are you?

[Flexmoney]

Dave,

I was thinking about offering to RO in your place...so that you could attend the class. But, I just don't think I can make it. I have a house to get sold and I will likely be tied up working on it this weekend. ($$$)

[BDH]

Too many times, still, we're getting RO's that feel their sole duty is to screw the shooter.

Shooter Grrl, I'll apologize for the RO's you ran into that "felt their duty was to screw the shooter". I guess many of us have heard of things like this, but I have never felt that any RO tried to screw me when I was competing; and I can assure you, that I have never tried to screw a shooter when I was RO'ing. Of course, there may be a difference of opinion on a call, but them's the breaks. In other words, if there is only one hole in the target, AND it is perfectly round, you will most likely not be able to convince me that it is a double. However, I will be happy to pull the target and let the RM look at it. Also, I won't make a big deal about it as it is the shooters right. As for taking 'years' to get certified, it only takes a weekend (as FLEX said), and a mail in test every year to stay certified. I'm glad to see that you are going to do it.

Mistral404, I've never had the opportunity to sit through an Arnie class, but have heard they are awesome. I believe that I posted a couple of weeks back that my objectives are 1) SAFETY; 2) making sure everyone shoots exactly the same course of fire; and 3) making sure people have fun. Not exactly Arnie's words, but I think the message is similar... Thanks for making the investment in the sport!

Patches, GREAT POST, and right on the money!! Thank you for giving back to the sport, and I am with you on repeating the L1 course, as I would absolutely be going back through it this weekend if I wasn't already committed to work the Hoosier 3 Gun. BTW, I am certified at the CRO level, and have had the honor of working Area and Nationals at that level.

All, I initially took the RO course, just to better understand the rules. It was for my benefit only. As I got more involved with USPSA, I found that I enjoyed working matches as well. It is not a shooting challenge, but it is certainly a challenge!! I've met some of the finest people I know through NROI, and I enjoy giving back to the shooting sports. Remember, without range staff, there are NO matches......

[Vince Pinto]

Hmmmm. I just realised something.

I'm a certified IROA Range Master (so I can be appointed to run a World Shoot), I'm one of only six international range officer instructors, and I'm Chairman of the IPSC Handgun Rules Committee but I'm not certified by the USPSA.

Hence, strictly speaking, I can't work a USPSA match which is not sanctioned by IPSC. Damn.

I guess I better go write my Area 9 Director and my Congressman

[BDH]

Vince, WOW, good catch!! It would have been a bummer if you had accepted working Area 3..... traveled halfway around the World to get there...... only to be denied!!! :

Seriously, isn't there some level of reciprocity between IROA and NROI? Don't you have the ability to submit for a 'probationary' NROI card, just like I have the ability to submit for a probationary IROA card?

[Vince Pinto]

Brian,

The Area 3 match is no problem because it's IPSC sanctioned.

Still, guess I better ask my old mate John Amidon to give me an RO course

[BDH]

VP, I vouch for ya when I see him in Barry!

[Vince Pinto]

Brian,

I emailed John Amidon and he told me that USPSA NROI policy is that they will, like all other Regions, accept international credentials to work US matches. The only requirement is that the person familiarise themself with differences in the USPSA rulebook.

Hopefully, by this time next year, there will be no differences, except for the Divisions.

This is a good thing, 'coz I'm easily confused !

[PhilTerry]

There is a link in the USPSA members area with a downloadable application for ROs for the various nationals the contact is Kim Welke - kim@uspsa.org.

[BDH]

Shooter Grrl,

First, thanks for putting in the time. Sorry you didn't learn anything new, and felt it was a waste of time. I think that you might be the exception however.

Second, if you want to work the match, contact the Rangemaster, Tom Chambers and he'll steer you in the right direction. I'll send his info in a PM.

[Vince Pinto]

Kath,

I'm also very surprised to learn that you felt the RO course you attended was a waste of time and, frankly, your comment is quite a criticism of your instructor (who should not be identified here).

I'm an official IROA Instructor, and I've conducted RO courses in 9 different regions, and the funny thing is that I invariably learn something new at each course I've conducted and it's usually a flaw or loophole in the rulebook, which the guys use to beat me over the head. Repeatedly. With prejudice!

[Shooter Grrl]

Um, well... we did actually point out at least two errors from the Instructor.

I truly honestly believe EVERY shooter should attend this class and become a certified Range Officer. I wouldn't have spent my $40 and my time if I didn't think it was important.

I happen to be really familiary with the rules... I know many people that aren't - so please, when an RO class comes to your area, take it.

[crazyaboutguns]

Shooter Girl: Becoming a competent, Certified Range Officer involves much more than simply reading the Rule Book,

and instantaneous, verbatim recollection of its contents is not what makes a good RO. The RO course points out

many aspects of conducting a match, and teaches numerous aspects of how to conduct a safe match, the first

responsibility of an RO. Stage design fundamentals, dealing with a dropped gun, unsafe equipment detection

before the equipment is used, and many other aspects of match conduct are studied in the RO course. The single

best, most useful experience a USPSA member can have, in my opinion, is to take the RO course, apply oneself

to its content, and thereby expand one's knowledge of the sport.

Reviewing your posts from 27 March thru 21 April:

1) "First, I could care less about certification." (27 March)

2) "Well...I'm done with my RO class. It was, in all honesty a complete waste of time. I learned nothing new...

but I did the time.....". (20 April)

3) "Um, well... we did actually point out at least two errors from the instructor." (21 April)

Speaking for myself, I do care about certification. The RO course teaches a defined body of information,

and provides an opportunity to build overall RO skills. I certainly want to know that somone ROing me has exposure

to that body of information, and has demonstrated in the class and on the written exam that they have

such knowledge and proficiency. As to not learning anything new, the opportunity was presented in the RO class,

anyone that did not learn anything new simply chose to occupy space, rather than participate by listening,

analyzing and contributing to the class. Ask yourself, did you constructively contribute to the learning process

of the class? Each attendee had the opportunity to share and receive their experiences. The instructor

was not the only person teaching in the class. Reading you post of 21 April, "Um, well... we did actually point out at least two errors from the instructor", speaks volumes concerning your contribution to the class.

Please, do not take the RO exam, and do not attempt to engage in actual ROing. Your temperment,

mindset, lack of receptivity to inputs from others, and self assuredness that you are so widely knowledgeable

and skilled that as a result you learned nothing from the course, are precisely the wrong set of traits

for someone who is going to be in charge of conducting a safe match event by directing someone

who will be handling a firearm.