Discussion: Aimpoint Micro on Gold Team

[Jeff686]

It's been really dead in here for days. I wanted to encourage some discussion.

The wife game me an OK to spend my next bonus on a Gold Team, so I've been surfing the web looking at everything Tanfoglio I could find. One thing I've been thinking about is Aimpoint Comp or C-More. There are 'off the shelf' mounts available for both.

However, I also am interested in the new Aimpoint Micro, which doesn't have a 'customized' mount yet.

So, here's the financials:

C-More: $200

C-More Mount: $120

Total $320

Advantages: Cheapest

Disadvantages: High Dot, Big, Weight

Aimpoint COMPC SM: $348

Aimpoint CMPI Mount: $120

Total: $468

Advantages: Lower Dot, no ejection problems

Disadvantages: Weight? Size

Aimpoint Micro R-1: $540

Mount: Weaver, included from Tanfoglio (right?)

Advantages: Newest cool thing, weight, size, no ejection problems

Disadvantages: Price, no good mounts, height unknown.

Now, I don't have any expectation that anyone will come out with a customized Aimpoint Micro mount for Gold Team. However, I've been looking at the sight, and been wondering if I could build one. With the weaver attachement removed, the Micro has a base-to-dot distance of about 0.7". If you turn the scope 90deg, and mount it with a flat piece of aluminum, would the dot be close enough to the center of the barrel? Is the dust cover on the Gold Team 1.4" wide? Wow, wouldn't that be luck? If not, how much 'off center' could be tolerated? I can't manufacture anything complicated, so it would have to be close by happenstance...

Attached is a 'photoshopped' picture of Eric G's gun with a Micro onboard, and a photo of Saul's 1911 with a micro.

Anyone have an opinion?

Edited July 24, 2007 by Jeff686

[rtr]

I don't have an opinion, but a couple other options.

First is a Docter mounted to the slide by Beven Grams.

Second is a Cmore on a barry (sideways) mount, don't know if that mount will work on a Tangfolio though as it's designed for SI guns.

It's been really dead in here for days. I wanted to encourage some discussion.

The wife game me an OK to spend my next bonus on a Gold Team, so I've been surfing the web looking at everything Tanfoglio I could find. One thing I've been thinking about is Aimpoint Comp or C-More. There are 'off the shelf' mounts available for both.

However, I also am interested in the new Aimpoint Micro, which doesn't have a 'customized' mount yet.

So, here's the financials:

C-More: $200

C-More Mount: $120

Total $320

Advantages: Cheapest

Disadvantages: High Dot, Big, Weight

Aimpoint COMPC SM: $348

Aimpoint CMPI Mount: $120

Total: $468

Advantages: Lower Dot, no ejection problems

Disadvantages: Weight? Size

Aimpoint Micro R-1: $540

Mount: Weaver, included from Tanfoglio (right?)

Advantages: Newest cool thing, weight, size, no ejection problems

Disadvantages: Price, no good mounts, height unknown.

Now, I don't have any expectation that anyone will come out with a customized Aimpoint Micro mount for Gold Team. However, I've been looking at the sight, and been wondering if I could build one. With the weaver attachement removed, the Micro has a base-to-dot distance of about 0.7". If you turn the scope 90deg, and mount it with a flat piece of aluminum, would the dot be close enough to the center of the barrel? Is the dust cover on the Gold Team 1.4" wide? Wow, wouldn't that be luck? If not, how much 'off center' could be tolerated? I can't manufacture anything complicated, so it would have to be close by happenstance...

Attached is a 'photoshopped' picture of Eric G's gun with a Micro onboard, and a photo of Saul's 1911 with a micro.

Anyone have an opinion?

[XRe]

The Micro is only available w/ a 4 MOA dot. That disqualifies it completely, for me... 4 is just too small for the stuff we're doing. That data is from Aimpoint's website - if they're offering a dot size that's not shown there, that's their problem

This whole "height above the barrel" thing is a non-starter, in my opinion (and my opinion is shared by many). At the distances we're dealing with, that offset has little practical effect, and only requires that you adjust slightly at close range (ie, aim slightly high). Switching between guns is a simple matter of a few dry draws to reset the height you're drawing to. I wouldn't make a huge deal of it.

The R-1 w/ Weaver adapter weighs the same as a Serendpity (and that doesn't count the weight of a Weaver mount). I don't think you can say that weight is detriment for a C-More. The SlideRide C-More weighs the same as the R-1 w/o the mount to make it Weaver compatible. Either way, the weight ends up roughly the same between the two platforms, with the edge going to a Serendipity. The Docter/JPoint sights are the only ones that weigh less (can't find weight specs on them right now).

I've handled several different Jpoint/Docter style sights, and have not yet experienced one that didn't have incredible amounts of parallax in it, relative to C-Mores and Aimpoints - enough to put me off a 12" plate at 12 yards, with the dot in the center of the plate, in at least one case. Also enough to cause the dot to be blocked by the muzzle end of the gun, with the head in the right position - a disadvantage of being mounted so low in relationship to the barrel. Maybe better ones exist than the ones I've handled, but for now that "feature" keeps me from looking at that platform entirely.

Dustcover width on most CZ/Tangfoglie/EAA guns is 1.000".

If you want a tube scope, I still think the Aimpoint CM is the better way to go, cause you can get a better dot size, and the weight increase is not anything huge... you can get used to it like anything else.

Usual disclaimers apply - my opinion based on my experience. YMMV.

[Jeff686]

OK, I've never been in 'open' division before, so I didn't know 4 MOA was too small. Why is it too small? What size do you like?

As far as scope height, I guess I'm used to worrying about this on a rifle. I haven't plotted the trajectory of a 'open pistol' projectile. I wonder how much the dot height impacts the 'point blank' range. Maybe it's already so large, that a 1/2" in dot height doesn't matter. What distance do you 'zero'?

I made some assumptions about the weight, and I guessed wrong. So that's not a factor, at least between C-More and Micro. I wonder how much the Aimpoint Comp weighs. Of course, I'm not trying to build an 'ultralight' blaster, and the Gold Team is probably heavy anyway.

I'd probably choose a Serendipity, but I don't think they make one that matches the Gold Team hole pattern. Does anyone know for sure?

I agree with you about the parallax on the Optima style sights. I had an original Optima, and tried it on my target revolver, and had a lot of trouble offhand. I have a J-Point piggy-backed on a 6x Leupold on my AR, and I love it. However, I'm not convinced I'd like one on an open gun. I've heard that the dot dissapears between each shot (maybe that's bad recoil control by the shooter). It would be nice to use the top of the slide to index and 'find the dot' but a tube (like the aimpoint) would solve that problem.

Of course, there's another factor that kills the Optima style for me, you have to cut the slide. I'm on a budget, and don't want to pay for the work (and the re-chrome).

Is it common to 'loose the dot' on a c-more? Does it happen a lot?

[LeoHallak]

worse case you wouldnt have to re-chrome it for a while I ground off my checkering weeks ago without any problems.

Why not the scope mount henning sells I really like mine, they are nice quality... and if you get a slideride you can just switch it to another gun without worrying about the mounting holes.

leo

[Jeff686]

That's a sweet looking two-tone!

The reason I'd do the Serendipity (if it existed) instead of Hennings mount is money. $120 could buy me another Henning tuned magazine.

I won't need to move the scope, since this is my first and last Open gun... I can't justify upgradding every few years, the wife would not be happy.

[XRe]

OK, I've never been in 'open' division before, so I didn't know 4 MOA was too small. Why is it too small? What size do you like?

If I had my druthers, I like a 6 MOA, but that's the smallest I'd go. On a C-More, that size tends to wash out in really bright light, even with a dot module glare shield in place. So, I shoot an 8 MOA. Some folks like the 12 MOA. I believe the Aimpoint offers a 10 MOA, which wouldn't be a bad deal, either.

The C-More dot apertures (the hole the LED light shines through that determines dot size) are somewhat inconsistant, as compared to the Aimpoints. So, on a C-More, the dot size can be +/- one size sometimes.

As far as scope height, I guess I'm used to worrying about this on a rifle. I haven't plotted the trajectory of a 'open pistol' projectile. I wonder how much the dot height impacts the 'point blank' range. Maybe it's already so large, that a 1/2" in dot height doesn't matter. What distance do you 'zero'?

If you mean in terms of one hold still ended up in the body A-zone, the point blank range is, on most guns with most loads, at least out to 50 Yards.

There are various schools of thought on how to sight the gun in - you can do a search on the forum and find a big discussion on it. Basically, you have to know the range in which you have to hold over on close, tight targets, but other than that, most sight in distances put the bullet within the dot from about 10-12 yards out past 50...

I made some assumptions about the weight, and I guessed wrong. So that's not a factor, at least between C-More and Micro. I wonder how much the Aimpoint Comp weighs. Of course, I'm not trying to build an 'ultralight' blaster, and the Gold Team is probably heavy anyway.

Weight of each of these sights is on the manufacturers' web pages. The Aimpoint CompC SM weighs 6.5oz... without mount.

I'd probably choose a Serendipity, but I don't think they make one that matches the Gold Team hole pattern. Does anyone know for sure?

No idea what the hole pattern on the Gold Team looks like. I suspect it will be a one sided pattern, though, so at a minimum, you'd have to have holes drilled on the right side. This shouldn't be a problem, but expect to pay $20-30/hole for it...

It would be nice to use the top of the slide to index and 'find the dot' but a tube (like the aimpoint) would solve that problem.

I have a far better suggestion for you, that does not require any sort of compromise in hardware for this concern - practice. With a small amount of appropriate dry fire practice, your index will become extremely solid, and you'll never have a problem finding the dot And, your iron sight shooting will improve, as well, due to your newly improved index, as well....

Is it common to 'loose the dot' on a c-more? Does it happen a lot?

You mean while shooting, or during draw/reload stuff?? Without any practice, you may find it challenging to consistently find the dot during draws, reloads, etc. With practice, no issues. As far as while shooting, it really depends on the gun, the loads, and your adjustment to the timing of the gun. On my gun, the dot travels about 2/3 of the way up the lens during recoil, but doesn't leave the lens.

[al503]

I've been contemplating the micro also. A couple of other things to keep in mind is that the glass is smaller on the micro by about 5 mm (~27mm for the c-more v. ~22mm for the micro.)

I say the bigger the sight, the better but with lot's of dryfire, the advantage/disadvantage 'should' be minimal.

Other things: battery life on the micro is claimed at something like 5 years of constant use so no more $4 batteries for every (other?) match.

Dot: aimpoint dots seem to be more consistent without the voids, coronas, etc., and will definitely not have the washout that the c-mores do. I've got 3 dot modules in the drawer collecting dust because they all have little defects in them. The dot modules on my current open guns aren't perfect either. They just have the best shape and the least amount of voids. C-more's 1 year warranty from the date of manufacture (not when the owner buys it) doesn't sit too well with me. I happen to like a smaller dot. My new open gun is coming with a c-more with a 4 moa so the lack of choice isn't an issue with me.

Sight to bore: this is the main thing that attracts me to the micro. As Dave mentioned above, there's really not that much of a difference, about 1/2." However, a 1/2" is a 1/2" is a 1/2." You can get the Barry mount for the c-more and after you adjust it once, you should be good to go but for guys that like a slideracker and like it on the left hand side... Another minor point with practice but still a point nonetheless.

[BritinUSA]

With the weaver attachement removed, the Micro has a base-to-dot distance of about 0.7". If you turn the scope 90deg, and mount it with a flat piece of aluminum, would the dot be close enough to the center of the barrel? Is the dust cover on the Gold Team 1.4" wide?

Dust cover of Tanfoglio Open gun is 1.000"

A good gunsmith should be able to custom make a mount that sits on the left side of the gun. The sight would be screwed onto the side of the mount, you should not need to rotate it, you may be able to screw into the sight. See picture below but with the mount on the other side of the gun. You may need to angle the mount away from the gun a little, which you can just make out in the attached picture.

Aimpoint_side_mount.tiff

Hennings scope mount is a good option if you won't want to go with a Aimpoint or Doctor.

[Coolduckboy]

Are these micro sights reliable? My Grandfather want to go to a C-more but if this micro is better might as well switch to that.

[Jeff686]

Are these micro sights reliable? My Grandfather want to go to a C-more but if this micro is better might as well switch to that.

I don't think they've been around long enought for anyone to know yet, but for $500, they better be good.

I think aimpoint has a very good reputation.

[al503]

Are these micro sights reliable? My Grandfather want to go to a C-more but if this micro is better might as well switch to that.

I don't think they've been around long enought for anyone to know yet, but for $500, they better be good.

I think aimpoint has a very good reputation.

If they're anything like the older models, you shouldn't have a problem. I think they have a 10 year manufacturer's warranty.

[Jeff686]

With the weaver attachement removed, the Micro has a base-to-dot distance of about 0.7". If you turn the scope 90deg, and mount it with a flat piece of aluminum, would the dot be close enough to the center of the barrel? Is the dust cover on the Gold Team 1.4" wide?

Dust cover of Tanfoglio Open gun is 1.000"

A good gunsmith should be able to custom make a mount that sits on the left side of the gun. The sight would be screwed onto the side of the mount, you should not need to rotate it, you may be able to screw into the sight. See picture below but with the mount on the other side of the gun. You may need to angle the mount away from the gun a little, which you can just make out in the attached picture.

Aimpoint_side_mount.tiff

Hennings scope mount is a good option if you won't want to go with a Aimpoint or Doctor.

That's cool. The micro might look strange mounted that way.

After taking a closer look at the Micro, I now realize it would require a right hand side mount to acomplish a graceful 90deg rotation. Not that that is impossible, but it does make it harder.

[ipscbob]

Are these micro sights reliable? My Grandfather want to go to a C-more but if this micro is better might as well switch to that.

I don't think they've been around long enought for anyone to know yet, but for $500, they better be good.

I think aimpoint has a very good reputation.

If they're anything like the older models, you shouldn't have a problem. I think they have a 10 year manufacturer's warranty.

Aimpoint honors their warrantys for life. I have recently had multiple COMP XDs that are 20+ years old refurbed at the factory for a flat fee of $35.00 including shipping. Best in the business.

[Coolduckboy]

Thanks for the information. I might have to check them out.

[eric nielsen]

For uspsa shooting, I would wait until they come out with a 7moa or 10moa dot.

I have a newer CompC with 4moa dot that I can jack up the brightness really high - brighter than any C-More, but that dot is still pretty small compared to most targets we shoot. I like my old Aimpoint with 10moa dot a lot better. It is also lighter, 5oz instead of 6.5oz, and shorter too.

I've also shot with 6, 8, and 12-moa C-More's, and a very bright 7moa Docter. My favorite dot for uspsa is 7 or 8 moa size. Tiny dots are nice for the occasional 20-yard round plate but for everything else i'm more decisive [confident] with the bigger dot. My $.02

Here is Derek's mount, looks like a good one:

[Coolduckboy]

I like that style of gun. I have an open gun that has a PDP4 optic and has a big 10moa dot that i am not too fond of. I like the smaller dots. Aim small miss small.

[ipscbob]

I too prefer the shorter lighter aimpoint COMP XDs, which were unfortunately discontinued. Fortunately there are lots of used XDs around if you look selling in the $150.00 range. I have purchased 6 myself in the last few years. Definitely a lifetime supply for me considering their solid durability and great warranty. Try it, you may prefer it.

[Jeff686]

With the weaver attachement removed, the Micro has a base-to-dot distance of about 0.7". If you turn the scope 90deg, and mount it with a flat piece of aluminum, would the dot be close enough to the center of the barrel? Is the dust cover on the Gold Team 1.4" wide?

Dust cover of Tanfoglio Open gun is 1.000"

A good gunsmith should be able to custom make a mount that sits on the left side of the gun. The sight would be screwed onto the side of the mount, you should not need to rotate it, you may be able to screw into the sight. See picture below but with the mount on the other side of the gun. You may need to angle the mount away from the gun a little, which you can just make out in the attached picture.

Aimpoint_side_mount.tiff

Hennings scope mount is a good option if you won't want to go with a Aimpoint or Doctor.

Now I'm wondering, has anyone ever done this to a C-More SlideRide? You could get the sight another 8-10 mm lower. Would it be strong and safe enough to drill and tap the side of the C-More, and screw it to the mount.

[martyg00]

I too prefer the shorter lighter aimpoint COMP XDs, which were unfortunately discontinued. Fortunately there are lots of used XDs around if you look selling in the $150.00 range. I have purchased 6 myself in the last few years. Definitely a lifetime supply for me considering their solid durability and great warranty. Try it, you may prefer it.

Ipscbob,

I still shoot with a 1st generation Aimpoint Comp (non xd blue) with a rescomp battery cap. I prefer the big 10 moa bright dot.

Not to give away your secrets....... where are you finding these used XD's?

I wouldn't mind getting a spare, but these old Aimpoints seem to be bullet proof.

Marty

[slavex]

we've been using a micro on a buds TP9 for a couple weeks now, zero issues with it. steel Bzones at 100ys are easy hits, and he's damn fast with it, either as a pistol or carbine. I'd love to mount one on my Desert Eagle just for shits and giggles, but I'll need to make a new mount to do so, or take the front sight off and use the front slot, don't want to do that though.

I think it would make a decent Open gun optic, though the small dot might not be so good. Having limited experience with Cmores, but tons with full size Aimpoints (on AR's), I think I can see where you guys are coming from in relation to the dot size. I think the Cmore also has a bit larger of a glass area, giving you a little more leeway in finding the dot. But the thing Micro seems indestructible so far. It's also been mounted on a couple shotguns, AR's, etc. to no ill effect.

[olp73]

It's been really dead in here for days. I wanted to encourage some discussion.

The wife game me an OK to spend my next bonus on a Gold Team, so I've been surfing the web looking at everything Tanfoglio I could find. One thing I've been thinking about is Aimpoint Comp or C-More. There are 'off the shelf' mounts available for both.

However, I also am interested in the new Aimpoint Micro, which doesn't have a 'customized' mount yet.

So, here's the financials:

C-More: $200

C-More Mount: $120

Total $320

Advantages: Cheapest

Disadvantages: High Dot, Big, Weight

Aimpoint COMPC SM: $348

Aimpoint CMPI Mount: $120

Total: $468

Advantages: Lower Dot, no ejection problems

Disadvantages: Weight? Size

Aimpoint Micro R-1: $540

Mount: Weaver, included from Tanfoglio (right?)

Advantages: Newest cool thing, weight, size, no ejection problems

Disadvantages: Price, no good mounts, height unknown.

Now, I don't have any expectation that anyone will come out with a customized Aimpoint Micro mount for Gold Team. However, I've been looking at the sight, and been wondering if I could build one. With the weaver attachement removed, the Micro has a base-to-dot distance of about 0.7". If you turn the scope 90deg, and mount it with a flat piece of aluminum, would the dot be close enough to the center of the barrel? Is the dust cover on the Gold Team 1.4" wide? Wow, wouldn't that be luck? If not, how much 'off center' could be tolerated? I can't manufacture anything complicated, so it would have to be close by happenstance...

Attached is a 'photoshopped' picture of Eric G's gun with a Micro onboard, and a photo of Saul's 1911 with a micro.

Anyone have an opinion?

could this mount from millennium custom be modified to fit a "foglo"? looks great at least. It is the only special purpose mount i have found for the "micro"

[LeoHallak]

could this mount from millennium custom be modified to fit a "foglo"? looks great at least. It is the only special purpose mount i have found for the "micro"

I would bet he makes a version without holes if so its a easy install on a Tang.

Leo

[Jeff686]

Eric Grauffel now lists an RHT mount on his web page. The text says it is available for both Tanfoglio and S_I/1911. However, the drop down menu does not have a selection for Tanfoglio model. Maybe I'm confused, or maybe he doesn't have the Tanfoglio version yet.

Picture from Eric:

I wonder if the aimpoint would put up with riding the slide?

Edited April 25, 2008 by Jeff686

[BritinUSA]

That's a nice setup... The scope is far away from the ejection port so no issues with malfunctions. If I did not have the Docter scope I would go for a setup like that.