jrguar Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 Am thinking of having a local smith put a new Top End on my P14 45 which I shoot USPSA Limited....Has anyelse tried this and if so what type of issues did you have.....??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 No, but I'm really thinking about it though. What mags are you gonna use? I wonder if you can make the 45 mags work.... I was thinking about getting a Para P16 slide (since it's made by Para, it'll probably fit), then installing a Kart "easy-fit" 40SW barrel to it. Then buying the ejector, extractor, firing pin seperately. I'm looking at about $500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 The P14 with Dawson pads will get 18 (18+1?). Eighteen rounds of 45 ought to be pretty competitive, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Bagoly Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 P-14 mags can go to 18+1. P-16 mags do 21+1. $500 for the conversion using Para parts? How much more to get the whole P-16? Changing the caliber is illegal in limited division. It is unlikely they will ever detect it. Only difference in the bottom end is the ejector. Its an easy conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsonm1 Posted September 14, 2002 Share Posted September 14, 2002 If you watch gunbroker.com, you can pick up a new P-16 fairly reasonably priced. Just last week, a NIB P-16 with one high cap and a coupon for two more went for $505! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted September 15, 2002 Share Posted September 15, 2002 I would say that converting from 45 to 40 would not be worth it. I would sell the 45 and buy a 40. To convert you need. New slide, barrel and all attachments to slide, plus as many new mags as you own in 45. They cannot be converted and still work PROPERLY. Buy a new gun I am sure thats the way to go. (Edited by gm iprod at 6:03 pm on Sep. 14, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted September 15, 2002 Share Posted September 15, 2002 Joe, It ain't the gun. It isn't worth it to try and convert it over. Most of the stock factory parts suck anyway so you have to replace all that. I think the new p-16's are running around 700. Just spend some of that fortune and buy and STI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted September 15, 2002 Share Posted September 15, 2002 "..Changing the caliber is illegal in limited division. It is unlikely they will ever detect it.." Very good point Rich. A new gun would be the way to go. It's just that I would never buy another Para. I can, however, see "improving" the existing Para to better compete with the 40 cal crowd. But if we remember what Rich wrote, it pretty much kills the whole idea $505 for a P-16? That's about what they're worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsonm1 Posted September 16, 2002 Share Posted September 16, 2002 "$505 for a P-16? That's about what they're worth." Ouch!!! I have been competing in a league for the last three years with a slightly modified P-14. Only failures have been my stupid ammo tricks. Other guys in the club are running P-16's and not having any problems. 6 of the top 8 shooters in my league shoot Para's. They aren't the prettiest guns, but they run like scalded cats! YMMV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassy knoll Posted September 16, 2002 Share Posted September 16, 2002 my team mate gary did the P-14 to P-16 conversion and it isn't as easy as you think, he got all the parts and put them together but the gun wouldn't run right, he spent another $200 on labour to get everything as good as it was as a P-14 with gun parts, mags, and labour he could have bought the whole P-16 new. and since we are in the peoples republic of kanada we only have 10 round pistol mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted September 16, 2002 Share Posted September 16, 2002 parsonm1, my dislike for Para stems from problems I had with my P14Limited and the reluctance of ParaOrdnance to professionally acknowledge their substandard workmanship. I have zero respect for the "gunsmiths" located in hopbottom, PA. It took three UPS shippments to PA before I got the gun back in adequate mechanical condition. Only after Ted Szabo requested to see the gun did the gun get fixed. But here's the good part, only after the smiths fixed it did they then send it to Szabo. Of course they claimed that it was in "customer recieved" condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted September 16, 2002 Share Posted September 16, 2002 As far as limited .45s go, I think the Para is competitive for a bushing gun since with Bevin's mag pads, you can start with 18, sometimes 19 rounds in the gun. I disagree w/ GMinProd's statement that mags cannot be converted from .45 to .40 reliably. Bevin Gramms can do conversion from .45 to .40 and make them work just fine. Agree that w/ low prices of used Paras, its probably easier to just sell your para and buy a S_I limited .40 like Dawson's naked gun for about $1400. Sell used Para mags for top $$$ on E-bay and buy cheap S_I prebans over on uspsa.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted September 17, 2002 Share Posted September 17, 2002 My $.02 I converted a stock P-14 to a P-16 Limited out of necessity beacuse at the time the Limited was not on the CA approved list. In the long run it was cheaper than buying the P-16 Limited and adding all of the aftermarket parts I wanted on my gun. Used P-14 $500 - included DOJ fee P-16 slide w/adjustable sights $260.00 Dawson .40 bull barrel $145 on sale Tungsten Guide Rod $50 STI fire control $75 Ed Brown safeties $70 Dawson Plated Brass magwell $40 (on sale) Steel mainspring housing $25 Grip safety - $35 Total $1200 Not cheap but well below the cost of a STI CA Edge at $1785 plus taxes and fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 TMC - good post! You seem to have come very close to matching the CALIFORNIA sti Edge (if you can get one!)for less money with the added benefit of a few extra rounds. Other than the heavy dustcover and overly heavy slide, your para has it all (plus the tri-glide - nice touch). Good work. I may be an S_I shooter, but I appreciate TMC's creativity in accomplishing the task. DVC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted September 18, 2002 Share Posted September 18, 2002 Capacity issues. So let's say 18+1, that still insn't enough for the truck-loads of 20 & 21rd stages recently. Stage designers are making lots'o 40cal Limited gun friendly stages because that's the hot ticket. I'm thinking of one stage in particular at LimNats that was 20rds exactly. The top dogs were running it in around 7.75 sec. Anyone shooting a high-cap 45 didn't stand a chance.... OK new rule (just because I might start shooting a 45). All stages must be "General Equipment Friendly". No stage shall have a required round count of 20 or 21. 19 is ok, 22 is ok but not 20 or 21! That'll take the capacity edge away from the 40 short'n weak crowd. They'll start to fear hardball again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 The thing about the single-stack .45 versus high cap .40 versus high cap .45 - and I wish I could remember who said this to me originally - is that with a single-stack .45 you know you're going have to reload every time you move, so you just do it automatically; you don't get into trouble doing that. The high cap .40 generally has enough ammo to get you out of anything you get into. The high cap .45 OTOH has just enough ammo to get you into trouble....but not enough to get you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrguar Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 Hey Guys, I appreciate all the great input....even what Chris said had a little value..... Who knows maybe I wil just go over to the dark side........FWIW I have had one problem with a brand new P-14..my local smith looked at the gun and promptly contacted Para on my behalf...they took care of the problem (which involved a new barrel ) in about 10 days...from first contact to repaired firearm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the duck of death Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 The DARK SIDE welcomes all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Yeah, not surprised to hear of such a problem and in general , Para honors their warranty even outside of its terms - customer service if fairly good. They also did us poor souls in the US a favor in shipping pre-bans long after the manufacture ban went into effect here. Good show Canuks! I have said some nice things about Para here on BE but truth be told, their guns do seem to suffer an unusually high number of fractures; cracked barrels, cracked frames, and cracked slides being the most prominent parts to crack from the numerous Para (and former Para) shooters I encounter. The crack-free use of the Para design by firms like Enterprise arms leads me to think Para has had problems in the past with either their steel or their heat treating methods; the design appears to be just fine. Anyone else hear of a cracked part on a Para? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 No problems here. I have 3 steel guns and one old alum. kit frame gun. The steel guns are a .45, .40 and my 38 Super open gun. The 40 and 45 use Para slides the open is a Caspian. No cracks in the open gun after 20,000 plus rounds of 175 fp ammo. The 40 has only about 5,000 rounds now but seems fine. Knock on wood.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Keep an eye on the legs - that is where they tended to crack. The slides cracked at the ejection port. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Bagoly Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 The "legs"? I don't doubt that some have cracked. Broken slide stops are not unkown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrguar Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 I Have 2 P-14's 1 is very used I pruchased 2nd hand 125,000 + rounds thru it and no problems... My other P-14, the one Para Originally replaced the barrel on for me has probably close to 55-60,000 rounds thru it.... PF running from 180 to about 169...aside from the occasional worn shock buff it looks & runs great...in fact most of the original finish is still on the rail..... Maybe I just got a good one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 late to the party, but: That's exactly what I did with my two P14-45s. It cost me (all inclusive) $1k each to convert. You need new mags (can't get the 45 mags to work w/ 40) or mag bodies. That may appear to be expensive, but I had a reason: I have a german firearms license for both guns, coupled to the serial no. Changing frames is a *major* legal endeavor, while I can do with my existing frames what I want. If I had not wanted the licenses to remain valid, I would have opted for two new complete guns. --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSC CHIK1 Posted November 26, 2002 Share Posted November 26, 2002 i ran my Para 9x23 open gun from oct 1999 to dec 2002. i lost track of the # of rounds. no cracks or failures. the P14 is practically new, less than 10k rounds. still, no cracks though. i will let you know how they stand up when i get back to competition in january 2003 Sharon Anne USPSA L-2387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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