aggunner Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 I put 150rds down range working on my pairs and i have the hardest freaking time picking up the front sight after the first shot. But, if i'm shooting strings of 10 quickly I can track the front sight, just not on my doubles. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 My only guess (and it is just a guess) is that you are not focusing on the front sight when you shoot pairs, I think you may be shifting focus to the target to see where the 2nd hole went. When you shoot really quickly (multiple shots) then you have time to focus more on the gun. Hopefully someone else will chime in soon with some better insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Shoot individual shots, every shot is just that shot until it is gone. I agree that something is changing in your focus, shooting 10 shots is just 5 pairs. Shoot ONE shot until you can track the front sight all the way up and back down, shoot just a blank berm. When you can see that front sight through the whole cycle then start triggering a second shot as the sight settles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 My only guess (and it is just a guess) is that you are not focusing on the front sight when you shoot pairs, I think you may be shifting focus to the target to see where the 2nd hole went. When you shoot really quickly (multiple shots) then you have time to focus more on the gun. I think BritinUSA is right on here ....... except instead of looking for the 2nd hit, I believe you are looking for the 1st hit. Your eye focus may be getting pulled away from the sights, and on to the target between the 1st & 2nd shots. I normally shoot Open which is heavy on target focus, but today I shot a match in Limited, and I remember seeing my sights while shooting, and immediately looking at the targets after I fired all my shots on a particular stage or string to see if I had good hits. I knew I did .... I called my shots very well, but thats the difference .... With iron sights, you spend all of your time looking at your sights, while calling good shots .... instead of looking over your sights to see if your hits are good at all (while shooting) You should know what a good A-Zone sight picture is, and what it takes to make that shot happen. After that ... you just need to repeat that sequence TWICE on each target. Not a double-tap. TWO GOOD SIGHT PICTURES = TWO GOOD HITS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggunner Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share Posted June 25, 2007 i'll work on it some more today. Good thing I get to shoot at work when it's slow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 A good mental trick is to shoot 10 shots, slowly. If you're thinking "10" then you won't be focusing on the results of the shots, and will keep looking at the sights. Going slowly should steady out your pace so that you are learning what to do after every shot, rather than differentiating between "first of two" and "fourth of ten." H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 It's a natural thing to want to see where the bullet hit the target. But in many situations our natural reaction is often not the best response. So it takes a bit of trust to just look right at the front sight the whole time. If you keep at it, you might see some crazy stuff someday. Now and then you'll see the front sight like you've never seen it before. It's pretty cool. I can still remember strings of fire clearly from 25 years ago. And I'd bet probably almost every time, the first thought that came into my mind (after "it" was over) was, "Whoa! - I can't believe I just saw all that. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggunner Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 It's a natural thing to want to see where the bullet hit the target. But in many situations our natural reaction is often not the best response. So it takes a bit of trust to just look right at the front sight the whole time. If you keep at it, you might see some crazy stuff someday. Now and then you'll see the front sight like you've never seen it before. It's pretty cool. I can still remember strings of fire clearly from 25 years ago. And I'd bet probably almost every time, the first thought that came into my mind (after "it" was over) was, "Whoa! - I can't believe I just saw all that.be i know not to look at the target, my eyes just can't pick up that front sight after the first shot. I don't know why I can stay focused during a longer string, but not when I'm trying to crank out 2 quick shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 but not when I'm trying to crank out 2 quick shots. Therein may lie the problem. What I am hearing is, when you shoot "pairs" you are trying to "crank out 2 quick shots." That is a very bad habit to get in to, as you are not looking at your front sight when you shoot doubles. That makes it impossible to call your shot. How do you even know where your shot went? How are you going to know if you had a bad shot, and need a make-up shot to get your hit/points? I fell into the same habit when I first started shooting. It feels fast and fun, but is really, really bad. I was not seeing, rather just blasting. I also found myself trying to force the gun back on target after the first shot, instead of letting it lift and fall. Perhaps try shooting single shots, with a two second interval, and focus on the front sight for each shot. When you are clearly seeing the sight lift out of the rear sight notch and fall back into it, then shoot single shots with a one sec. interval, focusing on front sight. Again, once you clearly see the front sight lift, speed up the interval, but concentrate on a single shot every time. After awhile, you will be able to shoot one shot at a time almost as fast, if not as fast or faster, than cranking out two barely controlled shots, and will be able to call each one. That feels really, really good. Just food for thought. -br Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggunner Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 thank you for the suggestions, ill be sure to try them out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 - You might be blinking. Try wearing ear plugs and muffs. - Forget focusing on the outcome (hitting the target). Make your focus on seeing the sights...only. TRUST that the sights will deliver if you just pay attention to them. Make this your singular thought while shooting. Be dogmatic about it until you get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggunner Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 - You might be blinking. Try wearing ear plugs and muffs.- Forget focusing on the outcome (hitting the target). Make your focus on seeing the sights...only. TRUST that the sights will deliver if you just pay attention to them. Make this your singular thought while shooting. Be dogmatic about it until you get it. The sound doesn't really get to me since im so use to it, im thinking that i'm just so damn set of geting that second shot off that i'm just thinking about mashing that trigger again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 but not when I'm trying to crank out 2 quick shots. Therein may lie the problem. What I am hearing is, when you shoot "pairs" you are trying to "crank out 2 quick shots." That is a very bad habit to get in to, as you are not looking at your front sight when you shoot doubles. That makes it impossible to call your shot. How do you even know where your shot went? How are you going to know if you had a bad shot, and need a make-up shot to get your hit/points? I fell into the same habit when I first started shooting. It feels fast and fun, but is really, really bad. I was not seeing, rather just blasting. I also found myself trying to force the gun back on target after the first shot, instead of letting it lift and fall. Perhaps try shooting single shots, with a two second interval, and focus on the front sight for each shot. When you are clearly seeing the sight lift out of the rear sight notch and fall back into it, then shoot single shots with a one sec. interval, focusing on front sight. Again, once you clearly see the front sight lift, speed up the interval, but concentrate on a single shot every time. After awhile, you will be able to shoot one shot at a time almost as fast, if not as fast or faster, than cranking out two barely controlled shots, and will be able to call each one. That feels really, really good. Just food for thought. -br +1 to that. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 .. ron avery's video (i think now on dvd) explains how to work on this very well.. one thousand one, one thousand two.. check it out right here in Brian's shop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911whore Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 First off I am not super speed shooter but I try like h*ll. I know I was having the same issue with losing the front sight. How I overcame it was to shoot doubles SLOWLY and really pay attention to the front sight, making sure to concentrate on it then speed up a little almost to the point where it hard to follow then back off a bit, do it over and over again and allow your brain to adjust to how fast things are happening and soon enough the front sight will not get away from you no matter how fast you go. Just like a boxers reflexes, First few years in the gym you get pounded a bit but as reaction times adjust and your brain starts moving quicker and reacting faster punches look slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overhung Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 A couple of years ago, TGO was giving a demo and offered some commentary after the fact that 10% of the shot is sight picture, 90% is fire control. That seems to fly in the face for most of the advice here, but I tried to listen to that. It does suck finishing match after match in the middle of the pile (for me) an sometime I will get the the end of the match and remember seeing the sights twice. I too can shoot ten-taps better than I can shoot double taps- I think there are many reasons, multiple shots let me smooth into it- if you are like me the second shot is going to be a C. After that all A's. By shot three, you are settled. I would bet that you don't know where to look for the gun at the second shot. It is taking your brain a second look to see where the gun is and then you are focusing correctly. I can shoot sub .2 splits, but don't know where the gun is, or I can shoot .3 - .5 second splits and track everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Personally I never intentially fire pairs. I fire individual aimed shots. The fact that I'm already indexed on the target allows me to fire that 2nd shot somewhere around .18 - .25 depending on the range. Except at a range of a few feet, any faster means I'm not calling my shots at all. Anytime I try to fire "pairs" instead of individual aimed shots, the end result gets ugly in short order and I have to smack myself around until I remember the lessons I've learned about visual patience. At that point the practice targets get moved back to 25 yards as I remind myself that there's 50 more important things to worry about than splits. As I watched 200+ shooters at the SC Sectional while scoring my stage, the biggest difference I saw between C class shooters and B class shooters was the C class shooters not calling their shots and eating crappy points, misses and hardcover hits. Between B class and A class it seemed to be economy of motion, but as a deeply mired B class shooter I might be wrong. Just some thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 A couple of years ago, TGO was giving a demo and offered some commentary after the fact that 10% of the shot is sight picture, 90% is fire control. That seems to fly in the face for most of the advice here, but I tried to listen to that. I don't think it does. We are just talking about the 10%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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