Noob, Production Glock Question

[FLShooter]

First I would like to say Hi to everyone. I just recently found this forum and have been looking around and found some great info. I would like to say that I have found this to be the most friendly and helpful site I have found. I have yet to find anyone bashing someone for asking a question. As a novice shooter and a very new uspsa shooter there is nothing better then a bunch good guys who just want to help us new shooters.

Now to my question(s). I have read alot on this forum about the few mods you can do to your gun and still run production. I have a g23 that I want to use. I'm short on cash so this will also be my carry weapon. I currently have the factory sights but want to upgrade to night sights. I have chosen the amariglo (sp?) that seem to come highly recomended by people here. I also want to put on an extended mag release and slide release. I have not found out much about which ones I can use and still be legal. Also, where to you guys shop for your spare parts. I haven't found any decent shops around me, in Orlando. I know of Brownells and midway, but was wondering if you folks had any better spots to find good deals.

Any help would be great, thanks in advance!

Edited June 11, 2007 by FLShooter

[BayouSlide]

I also want to put on an extended mag release and slide release. I have not found out much about which ones I can use and still be legal. Also, where to you guys shop for your spare parts. I haven't found any decent shops around me, in Orlando. I know of Brownells and midway, but was wondering if you folks had any better spots to find good deals.

Welcome! You can use Glock OEM extended mag release and slide releases because they come standard on other models like the G34 and 35. My main "go to" places for Glock parts are Lone Wolf Distributors (http://www.lonewolfdist.com) and Glockparts.com. Both have good prices and extremely reasonable shipping costs with their 1st class mail options.

Best of luck, from one Production shooter to another

[Matt Griffin]

Quick and dirty guide to production legality: If it can possibly be seen (it doesn't matter how minor or "unobvious") then it is illegal. However, you can use aftermarket sights, and swap OEM parts, in this case a Glock extended slide stop and mag release. For instance, I can't use my G35 in production, because I sanded the sharp corner of the mag release to ease my lefty reloads. Would anyone ever see it? Nope. But the word of the rules prohibits it.

H.

[G-ManBart]

First I would like to say Hi to everyone. I just recently found this forum and have been looking around and found some great info. I would like to say that I have found this to be the most friendly and helpful site I have found. I have yet to find anyone bashing someone for asking a question. As a novice shooter and a very new uspsa shooter there is nothing better then a bunch good guys who just want to help us new shooters.

Now to my question(s). I have read alot on this forum about the few mods you can do to your gun and still run production. I have a g23 that I want to use. I'm short on cash so this will also be my carry weapon. I currently have the factory sights but want to upgrade to night sights. I have chosen the amariglo (sp?) that seem to come highly recomended by people here. I also want to put on an extended mag release and slide release. I have not found out much about which ones I can use and still be legal. Also, where to you guys shop for your spare parts. I haven't found any decent shops around me, in Orlando. I know of Brownells and midway, but was wondering if you folks had any better spots to find good deals.

Any help would be great, thanks in advance!

Welcome!

I'm not primarily a Production shooter, but I carry Glocks day in and day out. My normal Summer gun is a G-23 and I swear it shoots as well as the G-22 I carry most of the time in the winter. You'll be giving up a bit in control compared with some guns, but it won't really hold you back much at all.

I would be very, very careful about the extended magazine release and the extended slide stop lever. The factory extended mag release isn't too long, but there are some situations where it could get pressed accidentally. I'd suggest really paying close attention to it before you go on the street with it.

The extended slide stop lever causes a lot of people problems. Many people who shoot with their thumbs forward find that they hit it and cause the slide to lock back accidentally. I don't think they really offer any advantage on the street or in competition, so if you can try a gun with one first it might not be a bad idea just to keep from wasting money if they won't work for you.

[Duane Thomas]

I'd recommend against the extended slide stop. If you shoot with a straight thumbs grip - and you should - the extended slide stop can be depressed by the shooting hand thumb, preventing the action from locking open when the gun is empty. At the same time, the heel of your hand, pressing up on the extended part, can cause the action to lock open with rounds still in the magazine. It's just a total loser.

As for the extended mag release, while I know a lot of people like it, I found that for me it worked better to simply retain the stock short button but to tweak the internal mag catch spring making it easier to depress. From a table start the extended button is entirely too vulnerable to accidental depression.

So really, you're actually much better off with the stock parts you already have on the gun. And the price is right! On my personal Glock 34 which came stock with an extended slide stop and mag button, I actually "de-customized" it by replacing the extended controls with the lower profile parts off a Glock 17.

[frenchwrench]

Welcome! I shot for 2 years with a 23. The only thing I added was sights. All the extended stuff is a waste of money if you plan to carry it too. Buy ammo and practice instead. The 23 will make you a better shooter due to shorter sight radius( you have to do the fundamentals for hits). It's all in the trigger control and follow through. Enjoy!

[Micah]

glockmeister.com is a great place to find parts. I would suggest the extended mag release, but would like to deter you from an extended slide lock lever. There really is nothing to be gained from installing it, and eventually you might find that it causes problems.

Welcome to the forums, and I wish you nothing but the best of shooting!

[Flexmoney]

From a table start the extended button is entirely too vulnerable to accidental depression.

...which isn't an issue, unless you've tweaked on that internal spring (or it is failing).

I am with DT on not putting in the extended slide stop/release.

For competition, I'd use the extended mag release. This G23 sounds like it might be your carry gun? If so, you will want to make sure the extended mag release checks out for you OK during carry.

Are you shooting factory ammo or reloads? If factory, then you may want to shoot Limited-10 division...where your major loads can do you some good.

[ima45dv8]

I am with DT on not putting in the extended slide stop/release.

For competition, I'd use the extended mag release. This G23 sounds like it might be your carry gun? If so, you will want to make sure the extended mag release checks out for you OK during carry.

I'm up late dealing with an issue in Hong Kong ( ), so I have a late-night chance to add a big +1 to this advice. The extended slide stop is problematic for a lot of people using a thumbs-forward grip (which Duane and others have already recommended with good reason), so you might want to re-think that one.

As for the extended mag release, make sure it isn't an issue with your carry gear. Depending on how snug your holster rides that part of the frame, it could depress the button when you least want it to.

==========================

I've always gotten a kick out of the terminology, "depress the mag release button". Sort of makes me want to tell it it's fat, ugly and it's momma dresses it funny, just to see if the mag falls out. Would that be "gaming"?

[FLShooter]

Thanks for all the great info! I haven't thought about the extended slide release causing problems, but is sounds like I should have. I really think the extended mag release will help my mag changes, but well have to see, of all the parts to change out and not like, that seems to be the cheapest.

Again thanks for all the info and advice!

[Matt Griffin]

Folks, I'd like to make an offer that we can't refuse. I'm a lefty, and I really like the extended slide stop, for the same reasons you righties don't. I also have two G17s on the way in for Production and an Open project, and would prefer to have an extended stop for both of them.

So, would anyone like to do an even swap for the standard stops on these guns? I'm not worried about the cosmetics of your current extended, as long as it isn't functionally damaged.

H.

[driver8M3]

early in my shooting career i met dave sevigny at a gssf match. as he was checking out my open glock, the first thing he said to me was to get rid of the extended slide stop.

[Turtle]

Gotta agree with Duane 100% (...sorry Flex... ) on both issues. I run the short mag catch and the short slide stop on my Glocks.

Although, if you're very careful snatching the gun up during an "on the table" start, then you can get away with the extended mag catch. You just have to pinch the gun up, and be sure to not push down on it at all. That happened to me at the '03 Production Nationals...not fun, but lesson learned.

[sslav]

Quick and dirty guide to production legality: If it can possibly be seen (it doesn't matter how minor or "unobvious") then it is illegal. However, you can use aftermarket sights, and swap OEM parts, in this case a Glock extended slide stop and mag release. For instance, I can't use my G35 in production, because I sanded the sharp corner of the mag release to ease my lefty reloads. Would anyone ever see it? Nope. But the word of the rules prohibits it.

H.

When I first got my G-35 I also had a problem with the extended mag release (lefthanded shooter). I even wrote a post here back then asking about sanding the edges off of it. Being that that would make it production non-legal and that I want to shoot production I ended up going a different route. I swapped out the extended mag relase for a standard one. I had also bent the mag release spring a little to allow for a slightly softer resistance. Since then I have been very happy with my mag release. You may want to give it a try.

[Flexmoney]

Although, if you're very careful snatching the gun up during an "on the table" start, then you can get away with the extended mag catch. You just have to pinch the gun up, and be sure to not push down on it at all. That happened to me at the '03 Production Nationals...not fun, but lesson learned.

Todd, I never have had any trouble with table starts and the Glock with the extended button...until I started having them. Up until that point, I always found it humorous when the other shooters (with their super light buttons) would dump mags on table starts.

Trouble shooting mine showed that the mag button spring had developed a crack in it...making it lighter...causing those table start issues.

BJ Norris had told me (when he was shooting a Glock) that he had broken that spring on his Glocks (twice, I think). I teased him about it some, as I hadn't even heard of anyone doing that. Then I did it.

We don't hear about those springs breaking (ever), so we don't replace them. I suppose we ought to, as much as we use them.

Anyway...that was my experience. When I started having troubles, it proved to be a worn out part that lead to them. Where your issues with more than one Glock, or with your main competition/practice gun ?

(I hope that didn't sound preachy...I've taken 3 phone calls while trying to get this typed up.)

[Turtle]

The issue for me Flex, was simply not realizing how easy it is to inadvertently push in the mag. I just never looked closely and when it happened to me, oh the horror, I looked at it and saw how far beyond the grip the button actually protruded. At that point, I was still using the extended catch. I was just more careful about picking the gun, by pinching it with my thumb and fingers, as I stated earlier. It wasn't until that I switched back to my Glock last year (after shooting the CZ for a season) that I had another problem with the long mag catch. It seems that my grip on the gun was so high that my strong hand middle finger was touching the mag catch. When my support hand came onto the gun it would squeeze down on the strong hand which would push down on the mag catch and release the mag. Weird huh? I put in a new spring and replaced the slightly worn catch but, it still happened. I didn't want to have to think about not gripping the gun so high, so I switched to the short catch. I understand that this issue is completely just my issue, but that's why I use the shorty...

Where your issues with more than one Glock, or with your main competition/practice gun ?

Oh yeah, to answer your question, the grip issue occurred with my competition gun and duty gun (especially with gloves, and no, I don't wear them to be cool, I have wear them because of the flash-bangy-thingies ). So I switched out all of em, just to keep things consistent. I did find that the extended catch was more convenient, but not necessarily "faster".

You still da man though K'dawg!

[Matt Griffin]

Quick and dirty guide to production legality: If it can possibly be seen (it doesn't matter how minor or "unobvious") then it is illegal. However, you can use aftermarket sights, and swap OEM parts, in this case a Glock extended slide stop and mag release. For instance, I can't use my G35 in production, because I sanded the sharp corner of the mag release to ease my lefty reloads. Would anyone ever see it? Nope. But the word of the rules prohibits it.

H.

When I first got my G-35 I also had a problem with the extended mag release (lefthanded shooter). I even wrote a post here back then asking about sanding the edges off of it. Being that that would make it production non-legal and that I want to shoot production I ended up going a different route. I swapped out the extended mag relase for a standard one. I had also bent the mag release spring a little to allow for a slightly softer resistance. Since then I have been very happy with my mag release. You may want to give it a try.

Eh, too late now, I've dremeled the trigger guard as well. I'm just going to have to develop Glock knuckle on the Prod gun, I suppose.

H.

[Micah]

Trouble shooting mine showed that the mag button spring had developed a crack in it...making it lighter...causing those table start issues.

BJ Norris had told me (when he was shooting a Glock) that he had broken that spring on his Glocks (twice, I think). I teased him about it some, as I hadn't even heard of anyone doing that. Then I did it.

Not to drift too much, but I had my magazine catch spring snap on the 2nd string of the last stage of the Ohio Sectional last year. What a bummer!

A week later I bought 4 of every spring, plus backups of the essential parts (striker, extractor, locking block) and they never leave my bag. I am sure that if I had tested out the functionality of my guns springs before the match, I could have fixed the problem before it cost me match points.

So I guess what I'm trying to convey to FLShooter is that when he does order whatever parts that he wants to swap out on his G23, he should also invest a few extra bucks and at least buy 2-3 spares of his springs...ESPECIALLY the trigger spring!

[Flexmoney]

Todd, thanks for the clarity. That makes sense.

You still da man though K'dawg!

Ha...you got the turtle power !! v

[Duane Thomas]

Gotta agree with Duane 100% (...sorry Flex... ) on both issues.

Obviously a man of taste and refinement.

[FLShooter]

Pharaoh Bender,

Good advise! I do plan on putting together a kit of spare parts for my glock. Not just for competition, but because this is also my carry gun I don't want to have to walk around unarmed because I'm waiting for a part. That's on of the reasons I asked where you guys by your glock stuff, the websites given so far have been very helpful.

All the insight so far has been great! I think I have scraped the idea of the extended slide release. I'm going to try the extended mag release. I practice mag changes every day and I think the extended part would quicken things up a bit. I will definitely practice grabbing the gun from a table or drawer to see what happens there. I won't carry or compete with the modifications until I'm sure they won't cause problems. I've learned that much from this forum already, a competition or the street is no place to see if your new gun mods are reliable.

Thanks again for all the great info and insights, you all have really helped!

[Micah]

FLShooter, HERE is a link to Glockmeister. There are other places that were mentioned that sell Glock parts, but Glockmeister has the best prices on the more expensive parts. Here is what I would recommend you pick up:

-trigger spring x3

-magazine catch spring x2

-striker spring x3

- firing pin safety spring x2

-recoil spring x3 (or if you are using the stock recoil rod, grab at least one more of those)

-locking block x1

-extractor x1

-trigger housing x1

- firing pin safety x1

-spring cups (comes in a set) x3

Since you are using this for carry, you may or may not want to pick up a 3.5# connector. Personally, I would suggest buying one and testing it out. Another mod that you might want to think about is buying a G22 trigger with trigger bar. This trigger does not have the serrations that your G23 likely has. Some people don't mind it, but it wore my finger raw when I was shooting USPSA with it.

I know that I threw alot at ya, but please feel free to pm myself, Duane, Flex, CHRIS KEEN, etc. as we are all self-proclaimed Glock shooters.

[FLShooter]

Thanks for the link and parts list!

I think I'm a little afraid of changing the trigger on my gun because I carry it. I've read to many horror stories of DA's and Judges eating up people for modifying thier triggers "to make it easier to shoot people." If this was just a comp gun that would be on of the first mods. I shoot okay with the oem trigger, hopefully with practice I'll be more proficient. This is my first handgun, and I'm used to shooting shotguns and rifles my whole life, so learning fine trigger control is killing me! I'm starting to figure it out, and I have found some really good drills on this site I'm trying. I guess only time will tell. And once I can scrounge up the cash I plan on taking on of the classes near me at Frank Garcia's Universal Shooting Academy. I have heard very good things about his classes.

Thanks again for the help!

[Duane Thomas]

I think I'm a little afraid of changing the trigger on my gun because I carry it. I've read to many horror stories of DA's and Judges eating up people for modifying thier triggers "to make it easier to shoot people."

Don't believe everything you read in gun magazines.

Y'know, this reminds me of a conversation I had with Bill Laughridge of Cylinder & Slide Shop on the topic of pulling the magazine disconnector out of a Browning Hi-Power. Bill doesn't offer this service anymore (and the only reason not, he said, was "pure-ass product liability") but back when he did he was talking on the phone to a California judge who was listing the stuff he wanted done to his personal Hi-Power. The judge said, "And pull the mag disconnector, of course." Now, you'd think that if anyone has seen people get screwed for doing anything with a gun it would be a California judge. Bill asked him, "Aren't you afraid you'll get 'crucified in court for deactivating a safety device on your gun'?" The judge, literally, laughed at him, and said, "That NEVER happens. It's just something people scare themselves with."

[racerba]

FLShooter, HERE is a link to Glockmeister. Here is what I would recommend you pick up:

-trigger spring x3

-magazine catch spring x2

-striker spring x3

- firing pin safety spring x2

-recoil spring x3 (or if you are using the stock recoil rod, grab at least one more of those)

-locking block x1

-extractor x1

-trigger housing x1

- firing pin safety x1

-spring cups (comes in a set) x3

The only thing you're missing is the frame.

Edited June 14, 2007 by racerba