ktyler Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 I carry and own serveral single stackes 45's and I am getting interested in IDPA. I have been shooting IPSC awhile and wanted to try something new. The only reason I have not shot it earlier was none of my guns are legal. They all have bull barrels and for good reasons. After breaking a bushing in my duty gun at qualifications, I decided the bushing was a weak link I didn't want to risk my life or my partners life on. Most of the tactical guns out there are now bull barrels. Is there going to be a rule change allowing bull barrels for IDPA? Ktyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 I seriously doubt it (except where already legal in guns with 4.2" barrel length or shorter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 If you don't have coil bind bushing breakage is almost unheard of, it is one in a million to break a bushing with a fitted spring. Without typing a novel, I was a military armorer and have since played with the 1911 type extensively. I have not seen a bushing fail with a properly fitted recoil spring ever, and I am talking about literally hundreds of thousands of rounds downrange in weapons I own or was responsible for. A million rounds would not surprise me a bit. Coil bind breaks bushings, shooting the gun doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinkroe Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 I don't see that rule changing anytime in the near future. Having extra weight in the front of the gun is not "tactical" for full sized guns. I think any commander length barrel should be fair game though. Anything less than 4.2 inches and you are ready to roll. As far as bushings go I am going to agree with the above post. They break because of improperly fitted recoil springs. I was a bit paranoid so I when I had my gun made I had the smith install a reverse plug on the bushing gun. There is never any pressure put on the bushing by the spring plug. Although,, take down is slightly more complicated. Give a bushing gun a try again, just make sure the sring is fitted right and yo whould be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdmoore Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 No need to let this keep you from shooting. Check in with your local MD. Plead your case. 9 times out of 10 you can just shoot at local matches, could be that it might not count for score, or get posted. Worst thing is he could say "no" ... or loan you a gun? But this seriously sounds like a very good reason to own another 1911 ... maybe even in another caliber! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Agree with all of the above. There will not likely be a rule change to suit your guns. IDPA takes a lot of flak for supporting Wilson's gun business but I will point out that he has not adjusted the rules to admit his own Tactical Elite with cone barrel. I have not even seen a Mk IV collet finger break off or a OACP recoil spring plug jump out, much less a standard bushing break. You were VERY unlucky to have a bushing fail. I do not care what you shoot at my club's local matches IF THAT IS ALL YOU OWN. If you bring out some rooney gun and I know you have a compliant one, I will hassle you about it. Naturally you will not get such a dispensation at a sanctioned match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Most of the tactical guns out there are now bull barrels. Is there going to be a rule change allowing bull barrels for IDPA? Don't confuse IDPA with real life or tactical, it's just another game, with it's own rules, some of which are...... questionable. As to "can you shoot" HELL YES, come on out. We see all sorts of guns at local matches, very common is a bull barreled 1911 or a "C" model GLock. Why not get some 10 rounders and shoot in L10? Once you get the bug (and you will) if you're just in love with your current single stack, getting a new BUSHING barrel fit, or just a new bushing, is not that expensive. Come on out and play..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 If you don't have coil bind bushing breakage is almost unheard of, it is one in a million to break a bushing with a fitted spring. Unless, of course, you have one of those four finger models that Colt was (and perhaps) is using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Good point Rob. I didn't even think about those. Doesn't everyone just throw those out as a matter of course and put a real bushing in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzdraw Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 I have seen Colt Mk IV finger bushings break. They tend to break if the front of slide is off-spec (out-of-square). If a given slide breaks one Mk IV bushing, it will probably break several. On one gun, it would snap a finger every 3-5 thousand rounds. The fix was to go to a solid bushing. A full length guide rod limits the travel of a recoil spring. A recoil spring that is a little long,restrained in travel by a full length guide rod, will snap the bottom "feet" off a barrel bushing. The same spring will not be a problem in the same gun, with the stock GI/Colt short guide rod. Many 1911's will not make IDPA weight limit for CDP division with both a full length guide rod and a steel magwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Many 1911's will not make IDPA weight limit for CDP division with both a full length guide rod and a steel magwell. How well I know. Not only did I have to take off my faithful old steel backed rubber Pachmayr grips when they started weighing guns, I had to take out my .45's FLGR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 A full length guide rod limits the travel of a recoil spring. How so? The interior dimensions of the plug, and the shape of the flange on the guide rod, are no different compared to the standard shorty guide rod and solid plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Many 1911's will not make IDPA weight limit for CDP division with both a full length guide rod and a steel magwell. The problem, I have found, is with guns that use a National Match frame which weighs about two ounces more than a standard GM frame. On those guns I've had to pull out the FLGR to make weight. On a gun with a standard frame, by contrast, you can have a FLGR, ambi safety levers, mag funnel, adjustable sights, all the goodies, and still come in well below weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 What comprises a "National Match frame"? That is a very loose term in the 1911 knockoff business. The first time I ever saw guns weighed at the 2006 Nationals, it appeared that Les Baers ran heavier than Colts and Caspian constructs in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 I've seen heavier-than-conventional-stock weights on the Les Baers and Nighthawks, both of which are advertised as being built on National Match frames. Neither of them would make weight with a FLGR. If anyone can answer the question of exactly what dimensional differences constitute a "National Match frame" I'd be very interested to hear it, myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Most of the tactical guns out there are now bull barrels. Actually, the vast majority of 1911s, "tactical" (whatever that means) and otherwise are bushing guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Wonder Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 (edited) I don't see that rule changing anytime in the near future. Having extra weight in the front of the gun is not "tactical" for full sized guns. The "No Bull Barrels" rule has nothing to do with tactical. It has to do with IDPA not wanting to start a competiton equipment race. Don't confuse IDPA with real life or tactical, it's just another game, with it's own rules, some of which are...... questionable. Pay no attention to this sort of anti-IDPA rhetoric. IDPA has rules just as other associations. Too often, members of various associations feel that their association is superior without any knowledge of the other sports and the foundations by which it's rules were developed. At IDPA matches you'll always find friendly folks who are out to enjoy themselves and the comraderie IDPA promotes. Edited June 9, 2007 by Singlestack Wonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Too often, members of various associations feel that their association is superior without any knowledge of the other sports and the foundations by which it's rules were developed. And too often, general assumptions are made about members of all associations who play any game that involves guns, and can make direct and fully informed comparisons with the various games. Many of the folks on this board have direct and personal knowledge of these games, not merely things learned from reading dubious "histories" written well after the fact. Which is what makes this board endlessly entertaining. I'm curious about the NM specs, too. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Idpa isn't getting bull barrels. If it does, that will be news for another thread. (Question asked and answered). NM specs are for another thread. Now...if any of the regular suspects want to debate the pros and cons of IDPA....DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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