SW 610 vs. 625 vs. 686

[BigDave]

I'm interested in a revolver for USPSA.  Logic tells me to go ahead and get a 610 (or 646 for that matter) since I already shoot 40 in my limited blaster (logic meaning, I already reload 40, no changing of tool heads, powder, bullets, primers, etc.).  The added benifit is that, if I wanted to shoot pins, I could drop factory 10mm's in them thar holes and get to the blastin'.  Makes sense to me, but I'm simple.

I guess the real question is, can anyone tell me why the 625 (or varients there of) or the 686 (or other 357 varients) would be a better choice for USPSA?  I will be the first to admit, I know squat about revolvers.  My only experience with one is a 44 mag Super Redhawk a friend owns (what a pig, but makes big holes!!!)

Any and all input is indeed welcome!!!

TIA

[bountyhunter]

I'm not an expert at the subtleties of the needs of USPSA, but I would think it would require a revolver that is accurate, dependable and has a good trigger.  The SW686 and 66 are standards of the industry IMO for price/performance in these areas.

[Duane Thomas]

The full moon clip method of operation is a plus in the 625. I realize the 610/646 share this MOO, but the "fat" .45 slugs tend to slide into chambers much more smoothly than .40 cal rounds, for faster, more fumble-free reloads.

Many people find the N-frame 625 a bit large for their hands; the L-frame 686 fits them better. And a good man with Safariland Comp-IIIs can give the moon clip boys a run for their money.

You pays your money and you makes your choice.

[George D]

Like Bountyhunter, I'm not an expert at the subtleties of the needs of USPSA. I agree with his comments re the accuracy of the 686, but if you throw Pin Shooting into the equation then go for the 625. Pins respond better to big flat nosed rounds than smaller calibres and the 625 was designed specifically for pin shooting.

[Flexmoney]

Dave,

I think you and I would be in the same boat (I'd be shooting Revolver for the "fun factor").  Something that shoots 40 would likely be the ticket for the reason that you have mentioned...at least until you are a threat to win the Nationals.  

My post is coming from the peanut galley though.  I don't shoot revolver in competition.  I have thought of it often.  I know I don't want to gear up to relaod for large pistol though.

There is a fairly local 610 for sale (Detroit area?) on the USPSA site.  Maybe in our classifieds too?  Greg Bever  gjbever@aol.com    Invite Greg down to shoot.  Chances are he will forget his range bag and drive off without it...you could get everything for free.  

[Viggen]

I do shoot a 586. Why? It works and I am set up for it. I run the Safariland Comp 3 speedloaders, no moons right now.

Your thinking on 40/10mm can make sense. Reloads will be quickest with the 625 - big holes. But speed on the reloads is mostly a function of practice. If you use Jerry's grips the feel on L or N frame is the same.

Revo is harder to master than a bottom feeder. And if you are shooting USPSA you will find that you will have to do it for your own reasons because the courses will NOT fit well with 6 rounds. Nor will you get much support.

Where I will eventualy go and what I would do if I where starting over is to a 625 or a 686.

625, 686, 610 = pick one.

Practictice and stay with it.

The biggest problem with the revo is that folks don't stay long enough to get good with it.

Personally I find them a more satisfying than a semi. But that changes with the phase of the moon and the alignment of the planets.

The big thing is practice.

Pick one and go.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Ranking I'd assign;

USPSA/IPSC;  625, then 610, then 686.  But not by very much.  The 625 will load faster, if you can load faster.  If not, you won't notice any difference between them.

Pins;  625 & 610, then distant 686.  Pin loads in .45 and 10mm are easy to load and easy to shoot.  Pin loads in .357 are not easy to load, and really un-fun in a 686.

One advantage I'd see to the 686 is longer barrels.  Faster and more precise sight alignment, and longer barrel for more push on the .357 for pins.

Ideally, my IPSC revo would be an old 25-2 with the 6.5" barrel (did they ever make an 8", if so I'd want it) and it would be death on pins.

[spook]

Dave,

It seems most people here got the most impotant stuff in perspective. You have to practice a lot, the gear will follow.

The biggest reason for people to buy a 625 seems to be fast reloads, due to the enormous charge holes. If you get a 646, the holes are relatively the same size (holes are smaller, but so is the cylinder). If you get a 610, the holes are relatively small(er), so you'll chamfer them to "as big as you like". A 686 will bring speedloaders into the game, plus you'll shoot minor (or work up some funky .357 loads), so I personally would stay away from them and go with a moonclip gun. Just go with whatever you feel is best, or whatever is the cheapest. I know you already load .40, so why not go with a 610 or 646? With practice, reloads will be just as fast.

You say you don't know a lot about revolvers. Well, there's not that much you should know to be competitive. You just have to know YOUR revolver. And practice like a maniac.

Good luck pickin' one. And remember: Buying a new gun is fun!

[twix]

Uh, Dave, I just happened to have picked up a 610 recently. You are certainly welcome to try it. Drop me a note.

[xcount]

Dave,

Wow, a lot of good replies in a short period of time. I'll add my 2 cents.

I recently bought a 610 and my primary reason was one that you had mentioned - I already had a ton of .40 S&W stuff from shooting Limited and had nothing in .45 caliber. No dies, no brass, nothing!!

I started out shooting IPSC with a 686. When I decided to get back into revolver shooting, I suppose I could have gotten the 686 back out and run .357 to make major but I find the magnum load to be somewhat snottier than the .40.

So I opted for the 610. Was this a wise choice? Well, the jury is still out.

One of the first things I learned is there aren't a whole helluva lot of round nose bullets out there in .40 caliber. (And you will need round nose for those high-speed reloads.) I finally settled on the 155 grain from Precision Bullets. They seem to work fine for me. But you will have a much greater choice of bullets if you go with the 625.

And I've had some mechanical problems with this particular gun (that I expect will be resolved shortly). (If you want details I'll oblige by e-mail or message.) Otherwise, it shoots great and feels not much different from my cousin's 625. And the "feel" of the gun as it fires is a big thing for me.

One thing I do have a problem with is the sheer size of the gun. I spent a couple of decades reloading K & L frame revolvers by shifting the gun to my support hand and feeding the ammo in with my shooting hand. The N frame is just big enough that I don't feel like I have a good (controlled) grasp on it when reloading this way. So I had to learn to reload with the support hand.

As for the 646, I don't think it would meet the production quota to be USPSA legal. (I thought it sounded like a good idea, too, an L frame .40.) Also, I think that it was only available from the Production Center so the cost would be greater.

I guess my bottom line assessment, for what it's worth, would be.............

If I had it to do all over again I would have gotten the 625. The 610 is OK and I'll continue to shoot it but if a good .45 at a good price comes along.............

(Anybody got one?)  

[Bill]

You need a round nosed bullet for fast reloads no matter what you get. I am not aware of anything but flat nose for .40. The spacing of the chambers on the 45 seems to be a little better for fast reloads than the 40's. The 646 was supposed to be the new hot setup for IDPA but those that have one shoot something else. I switch between a 25-2 with moon clips & a model 10 with speedloaders. I reload both about the same speed. I can load major with the 45 but not the model 10. See if you can try other peoples guns.

Bill Nesbitt

[BigDave]

Spook - just for clarification, the USPSA Revolver rules specify that [para] "any gun manufactured by a factory and made availble to the general public."  It doesn't have the same verbage as does the some of the other division that specify a minimum number made in certain length of time (i.e. one year).   If I'm interpreting this correctly, the 646 would be in for USPSA, wouldn't it?

Bill - Oregon Trail/Laser Cast as both a 155 and a 185 RN SWC in 40

     -

(Edited by BigDave at 7:47 pm on Jan. 9, 2003)

[spook]

Uh, well, I dunno Dave, sorry. I'm not in the US (Europe). I couldn't tell you for sure, so I would ask Vince Pinto in the IPSC/USPSA rules questions forum. I think it's no problem. The 625's I'm shooting are one "model of 1988" (5000 produces worldwide) and one "model of 1989" (don't know how many produced). So be sure to double check before buying.

[xcount]

BigDave,

You are right about the wording of the Revolver division regulations. There IS nothing in there about production quotas. My oversight.

Interestingly enough, since the wording in the IPSC & the USPSA regulations are pretty similar it would seem this was intentional. I wonder if that was designed to allow the 8 shot revolvers to be used.

[Ted Murphy]

I shoot USPSA with a K frame and speedloaders.  I do it because I don't have a 625.  If I did, the K frame would never be seen on the range again.

Seriously though, Major .45 loads in the N frame 625 are a lot easier to handle than major .357 loads in the K or L frame for most if not all people.  The 625 reloads faster too.  Well, my best reloads with my K frame and Comp III speedloader can be on a par with me using a 625, but overall I can reload a moonclip gun much faster.

As far as 625 vs 610.  It's a toughie cause the 10mm is very cool and the gun will also shoot the .40's.  My friends who shoot the 610's tell me the 625 is faster to reload than the 610, even when you use .40's in the latter.   How much that is varies though.

I have 2 wheelgun shooter friends who have 646's.  They really don't like them for competition, expecially in major loads.  They have told me the lack of a full lug barrel and that titanium cylinder makes it a bit light, and they don't like how the gun will bark with the .40's.  They like it as a carry piece though.

Ted

[Hawker]

I'm shooting a Perf Center 625 5" .45ACP (I also had an action/trigger job done right after I bought the gun as PC guns still need work). It's perfect now and I even had the 'smith drill a couple of small dots in the rear sight blade and fill with flourescent yellow. Helps alot.

I shoot Montana Gold 230gr FMJ Bullets and Starline Brass. VV 320 is my choice of powder (when I can get it) or the old standby W231 if I don't have any Vit. Win primers are reliable in my gun as my DA is 8# and I didn't want to go lighter and use Federals. I prefer WLP.

I use a CR Speed holster (by ResComp) and single moon clip holders. I just put as many holders on my belt as I think I'll need to shoot a stage.  Fast setup and it works for me. Btw, the Jerry M grips were too small for my hands. I bought a set of S&W wood conversion grips and worked them over with a dremel to get them where I wanted them.

Safe shooting!

Hawker