Looking For Info On N320 With Moly Coated Bullets

[big_kahuna]

Anyone have any experience with VV N320 and moly coated bullets? Planning to try N320 with 185 precisions or 180 masterblasters.

Looking for any ballpark load data. Yes I did a search (or a dozen), did not find what I was looking for.

I'll be loading to 1.135 for use in Glocks with KKM barrels.

Masterblaster's website indicates 4.5 or 4.6 grains of N320 will yield 169 PF. The VV data indicates that 4.3 grains is the max load for a Fiocchi 180 grain LTC bullet.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[G-ManBart]

I found one load listed that's similar...180gr West Coast TC (now X-treme) with 5.1gr of 320 at 1.20" with an average of 970fps for a PF of 174.6 out of a 5" SVI.

Given the differences in OAL (the longer load above will need more powder for the same velocity) and individual gun variation, it looks like Masterblaster's info is in the right ballpark. You could probably start with their load and be really close.

[born-in-45]

At that length, I would load below 4.0 of VV320 as a start. If you check the Maas data you'll find a 4.0 of VV320 with a 200 grain bullet with an OAL of 1.125 producing a PF over 181. Heck 4.1 of VV340 at 1.135 OAL is producing PF of 167.4.

[basman]

In my SV 4.5 gave me 160 PF. but that was loaded long, 1.195 OAL

[Sean Gaines]

Just wondering why you want to use an expensive powder for a cheap bullet. I believe you are going to get considerable amount of smoke with the vv anyways, just because it so hot. to me its like buying a cheap car and putting the high octane gas in it. Why not try Titegroup at 4.4gr. It will smoke also, but it wont effect your pocket book as much. I would save the vv for your major match ammo. I personally use the titegroup load and its very soft shooting and the accuracy is there also. Its just a little harder to load those moly coated bullets compated to jacket type bullets. But you can't beat the price. I use this load strictly for my practice rounds, and at the end of the day, I don't feel guilty firing 1k rounds in a practice session.

Good Luck

PK

[big_kahuna]

Thanks for the info folks!

Paperkiller, you have a good point about the costly powder and the cheap bullets. Great advice, I'll take it. For now, probably best to stick with the loads I've worked up for moly (231) and jacketed (TG). Will save the N320 and associated load development project for another day.

[Mick]

Precision 185 over 4.2 grains on N320 with a WSR @ 1.165" for 915 fps in a 5" SV AET barrel....169.2 PF

Very little smoke. If N320 become too expensive it will have to be Titegroup.

I've used N320 sine 1996 and will pay more for it.

[Brazos SC Shooter]

I have a Brazos SC Limited gun on the way and the recommended load from Bob is 185gr Precision over 3.9-4.0 N320 with an OAL of 1.22.

Not sure what gun you are shooting so I am not sure if you need closer to factory lengths or not.

[Matt Cheely]

Dave from precision suggested dropping the powder charge .5 grains from a jacketed load. Gives you a starting point.

[Sean Gaines]

As just a quick rule of thumb it is usually 10% less powder of your current jacketed load, that you need to make the same PF with master blaster bullets, of course start out low and move up.

[TDean]

Just wondering why you want to use an expensive powder for a cheap bullet. I believe you are going to get considerable amount of smoke with the vv anyways, just because it so hot. to me its like buying a cheap car and putting the high octane gas in it. Why not try Titegroup at 4.4gr. It will smoke also, but it wont effect your pocket book as much. I would save the vv for your major match ammo. I personally use the titegroup load and its very soft shooting and the accuracy is there also. Its just a little harder to load those moly coated bullets compated to jacket type bullets. But you can't beat the price. I use this load strictly for my practice rounds, and at the end of the day, I don't feel guilty firing 1k rounds in a practice session.

Good Luck

PK

Titegroup smokes MUCH-MUCH more than N320 with coated bullets.

Why do you find it harder to load moly bullets?

[Sean Gaines]

Just wondering why you want to use an expensive powder for a cheap bullet. I believe you are going to get considerable amount of smoke with the vv anyways, just because it so hot. to me its like buying a cheap car and putting the high octane gas in it. Why not try Titegroup at 4.4gr. It will smoke also, but it wont effect your pocket book as much. I would save the vv for your major match ammo. I personally use the titegroup load and its very soft shooting and the accuracy is there also. Its just a little harder to load those moly coated bullets compated to jacket type bullets. But you can't beat the price. I use this load strictly for my practice rounds, and at the end of the day, I don't feel guilty firing 1k rounds in a practice session.

Good Luck

PK

Titegroup smokes MUCH-MUCH more than N320 with coated bullets.

Why do you find it harder to load moly bullets?

Whether it smokes much-much more or not it still smokes quite a bit. I just don't see the point in using a powder that burns clean, that is MUCH-MUCH more expensive than tightgroup, for just practice with a bullet that is going to get your gun dirtier. It kinda negates the whole reasoning behind using a clean powder.

As far as them being harder to load. I think it has something to do with the coating on the MB bullets. The jacketed bullets are very smooth and slick an go into the case with little to no effort. The MB are a LITTLE-LITTLE harder to load but not much to be concerned with. Its like shooting your 170pf rounds and shooting factory stuff, you can just tell the difference because you have done it enough times.

Hope that answers your question

[45gunner]

180gr master blaster , WSP, 1.135 OAL, VVN320 4.0 gr from a Jarvis Barrel in a G35, Velocity 916 fps.

Just makes major.

Edited April 17, 2007 by 45gunner

[bulm540]

4.4 Grains V V 320 with 185 precision at 1.190. Nice soft load. Gun is a Benny Hill 6 in fat free. about a 173 PF.

Edited April 17, 2007 by bulm540

[45gunner]

4.4 Grains V V 320 with 185 precision at 1.190. Nice soft load. Gun is a Benny Hill 6 in fat free. about a 173 PF.

He said at the start of the post he only want Glock Loads. OAL 1.135 is about max for this.

1.190 rounds will not fit in the mag.

[MoNsTeR]

Whether it smokes much-much more or not it still smokes quite a bit. I just don't see the point in using a powder that burns clean, that is MUCH-MUCH more expensive than tightgroup, for just practice with a bullet that is going to get your gun dirtier. It kinda negates the whole reasoning behind using a clean powder.

...what?

You're always going to have two things contributing to fouling, the bullet, and the powder. Some bullets leave residue, like cast, or coated, and some are close to perfectly clean like plated. Some powders leave all manner of gunk like Bullseye, and some are clean like the VV powders. Just because one uses a bullet towards the dirty end of the scale doesn't mean there's nothing to be gained from a clean powder.

But that doesn't even matter, because powder selection should be about performance, and in that arena N320 is a clear winner in my book.

Also, I shot a few cases of Master Blasters (over N320, btw) and never noticed any smoke to speak of.

[BigDave]

Whether it smokes much-much more or not it still smokes quite a bit. I just don't see the point in using a powder that burns clean, that is MUCH-MUCH more expensive than tightgroup, for just practice with a bullet that is going to get your gun dirtier. It kinda negates the whole reasoning behind using a clean powder.

The other thing to consider here is what the manufacturer recommends, and TG isn't it. While they don't state it, TG has one of (the?) the highest nitroglycerin contents of any pistol powder - it burns really hot. While I have loaded pounds and pounds of TG with jacketed heads, just on that fact (burns hot), my logic tells me to go with something a bit slower and a bit cooler.

MB recommends #14 on the burn rate chart (Clays) and slower with their bullets. They specifically recommend N320 and Ramshot Competition with 40 S&W loads.

[Mick]

After rereading some of the posts I noticed someone refered to the Precisions as "cheap bullets". I'm not sure I would call them cheap in either sense. They coast plenty. They are hard, cold swaged from quality lead wire and because there is no jacket to make problems they seem to be as consistant as anything else if not more. I know several steel shooters who only shoot PBs becasue of their uniformity and they get more velocity with a bit less wear.

I once heard one of my bosses (who no longer works here!) ask a younger guy why

he shot reloads in his expensive Glock. I reminded him that most of ONLY shoot reloads in our $2000 to $4000 guns!!!!

[ExtremeShot]

Regarding smoking, I wrote Dave Long an email asking him about which powders work best with his moly coated bullets and which will reduce smoking. I was using Titegroup. His response is below.

> Darren,

> Tightgroup will burn off the base of the bullets and cause to much smoke

> and lead.

> We use VV-N-320 and 340, Hodgdon Clays, Ramshot competition all with good

> results.

> Dave

[Sean Gaines]

Whether it smokes much-much more or not it still smokes quite a bit. I just don't see the point in using a powder that burns clean, that is MUCH-MUCH more expensive than tightgroup, for just practice with a bullet that is going to get your gun dirtier. It kinda negates the whole reasoning behind using a clean powder.

...what?

You're always going to have two things contributing to fouling, the bullet, and the powder. Some bullets leave residue, like cast, or coated, and some are close to perfectly clean like plated. Some powders leave all manner of gunk like Bullseye, and some are clean like the VV powders. Just because one uses a bullet towards the dirty end of the scale doesn't mean there's nothing to be gained from a clean powder.

But that doesn't even matter, because powder selection should be about performance, and in that arena N320 is a clear winner in my book.

Also, I shot a few cases of Master Blasters (over N320, btw) and never noticed any smoke to speak of.

Your absolutely right, but I choose to use titegroup for the same reason I shoot masterblaster bullets, the price and availability. I also pick up my own brass, after my practice session. I want to improve my skills as a shooter, without spending a small fortune doing so, especially with the prices of metal, nowadays. VV is a cleaner powder. But I choose to spend $110 as opposed to $160 for a jug of powder, for practice. As far as accuracy its just as good as my other loads.

Quote:

"Also, I shot a few cases of Master Blasters (over N320, btw) and never noticed any smoke to speak of."

next time pay attention, because it does smoke, I didn't know that tg smoked until someone pointed it out, now I see it all the time. If its windy its not as noticable, but when there is no wind and bright sunlight, you can really see it. here in Houston you can cut the humidity with a knife and there is no breeze to speak of, the smoke is worse.

[SteveZ]

Regarding TG and MasterBlaster bullets. I located pretty close to Tom Stidham and started using MB bullets just about the time they started up. I've talked with Tom numerous times regarding my experiences with his bullets and powder (I started out using his 200gr 45ACP bullet and Clays powder). Tom had always warned about using a fast powder and his bullets.

A year ago or so, I was talking with Tom again about his bullet performance and he told me that he had changed the coating and that the new coating would work better with faster powders.

My 40cal load is 4.3gr of TG and the MB180 bullet. The only time I notice smoke with this load is when shooting into the sun....other than that, I don't see it. Another shooting buddy and I did some back to back tests between his N320/MB combination and my TG/MB combination. I would say that my combination had maybe 10-20% more smoke than the his. While running our test, another shooter was using Universal Clays/Montana Gold 200gr bullet and their load was about 100% smokier than ours.

My recommendation. Get yourself a pound of TG and N320 and load them up and decide for yourself....I think you'll find that the TG/MB combination works just fine.

Edited May 1, 2007 by SteveZ

[boo radley]

Hmm....I've been through *exactly* this experiment, lately.

I ordered a mini-case of 180 MasterBlaster, and tried them with both Titegroup and n320. I was hoping TG would work, since it's easy to get, and relatively inexpensive. It's the powder I usually use with JHP's.

However, there was a dramatic difference in "smokiness" between the TG and 320 loads, IMO. It's possible I'm not sufficiently belling the case, when reloading, and scraping some of the coating off, but regardless -- I'm convinced TG is borderline acceptable, only, with these bullets.

Otherwise, I think they're great. A bit hard to load, because they're slippery and top-heavy, but a small price given the low price.

[ExtremeShot]

Has anyone tried Winchester Super Target with the moly bullets? From the burn rate charts, it appears to be close to the 320 but I would assume cheaper and easier to get (I've never used Super Target or vv n320).

Darren

[ExtremeShot]

Anyone tried HS-6 with the mollies?

Has anyone tried Winchester Super Target with the moly bullets? From the burn rate charts, it appears to be close to the 320 but I would assume cheaper and easier to get (I've never used Super Target or vv n320).

Darren

[Dave C]

Has anyone tried Winchester Super Target with the moly bullets? From the burn rate charts, it appears to be close to the 320 but I would assume cheaper and easier to get (I've never used Super Target or vv n320).

Darren

I have used both WST and Ram Shot Comp. I like both of them. I am currently finishing off 8 pounds of Comp then I will go back to WST. I have also used 320. 320 is the best I have ever tried, but I don't like it enough to off set the price.

I will stick with WST.