Loves2Shoot Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 DBChaffin, Could you do me favor and see if those A class L10 shooters shooting widebody aren't M class Limited shooters? That is my only beef with different classifications for each L and L10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBChaffin Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Loves2shoot, You have an excellent point and one I failed to notice. The M that won L10 is a Limited GM. 2nd and 3rd (A's in L10) are Limited Masters. 4th place (1st singlestack) is A in Limited and has shot IPSC since the late 1980's with his singlestacks of different configuration. He has talked about a widebody for a while but never made the switch. On the local level, before L10 was around, he was a threat for the Overall Limited win with his singlestack. Now THAT is a shooter making up the difference in competitive equipment. I think Lincoln has a point about the diminishing returns at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Enough said, Limited classifications should be the same for either L or L10, could someone please fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Icarr says > Do you honestly think that TGO would deliberately >handicap himself, at the Nationals? Firstly he doesn't have the option of using a S%I, he shoots for S/A. He has to shoot what they sell. I know they did market a Para clone that he shot for awhile, IIRC so he could be more competitive in Limited. He's not nearly as handicaped by the ss we humans. Off topic, have you tried Wilson 10mm mags? Hard to find but have been reliable feeders for me, locking the slide back with the plastic follower not so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcarr Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Off topic, have you tried Wilson 10mm mags? No, I've never seen them. Last time I checked, they were out of production and had been for some time. Lincoln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 They have been out of production quite awhile but they should be some out there somewhere. You can take a 38 super version and open up the insides and tweek the lips but it's a lot of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Springfield Custom Shop will make you up one of their double stacks (isn't that what TGO shoots in Limited & Open)...just get you checkbook out. Springfiled has recently offered some double stack 45's in their "Loaded" gun. Around $600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 "Bounty hunter, 38 super or 9 would be scored minor, big disadvantage. " I distinctly remember the .38S loaded up to major without much trouble. In fact, one of our league shooters was firing his .38S in our comp league and I commented it sounded like a .357. He said it was because the ammo was loaded up to major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Back to the original question posed (sort of) not only are the S_I guns THE way to, L10 is THE way to go, if you show up to a major prize awarding match and want to scam a little loot. I know the division supposedly started to give skinny gunners a place to play, and like production the unwritten request was for beginners to get their feet wet, but did they think we really wouldn't game it? I have seen it time and again, tough field, fat prize table, and a guy who might be top 5 but not win switches divisions, and just dowloads his way to something juicy. On the other hand you have hard core single stackers (Fordyce is one) who grab the dagger in their teeth and shoot very competitive LIMITED scores with a 10 round .45 single stack. IF L10 was for single stackers, USPSA went off half cocked. Heinie has the single stack rules. That gun is the roots of our sport and deserves a place to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Man, I'm away for a few days and you guys start having a really interesting conversation without me. "It sure would have been good if USPSA's intent was to set up a division for 1911 single stack's but they'd eat s@#t before they would admit they were wrong back in the early 90's." You might be surprised. When I talked to Michael Voigt out at the Factory Nats, he mentioned there is serious movement afoot in USPSA to make Limited-10 a singlestack only division. I would not be at all shocked to see that happen post-'04. (Edited by Duane Thomas at 12:46 pm on Jan. 17, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 "Caliber. No 10 rd factory 40 mags for the ss. Some people claim they run 10 round 45 mags reliably, I don't see them and they don't work for me." Well, experiences differ. I'm about to cross the 20,000 round mark in my Wilson .45, many of those rounds fired through Wilson 10-rounders. And they do work for me. "Guy's if you had your choice to shoot the Nationals with, a single stack 45 with 10 rd mags or a S%I 40 in any of their configurations which would you pick? Be Honest." I'd shoot it with a singlestack .45. Come to think of it...I DID shoot it with a singlestack .45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 "I distinctly remember the .38S loaded up to major without much trouble. In fact, one of our league shooters was firing his .38S in our comp league and I commented it sounded like a .357. He said it was because the ammo was loaded up to major." Yes, but even loaded to Major pf, .38 Super will be scored Minor in Limited-10. In order to be scored Major in Limited-10 - or Limited, for that matter - the bore size must be .40 cal minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I don't believe that L10 was conceived with single stacks in mind, it was for the states that have lost hicaps. Duane, you misread my post. No doubt that Wilson 10 rounders work as intended with 45 acp ammo, I was refering to using 10 round 45 mags with 40 ammo. Although I would love to see a division for single stacks I don't think changing L10 is a good answer. I think what is needed is a single stack division that only allows flush fitting mags, the single stack classic rules are not too bad but I think I would go further by allowing 45 only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Great! Change again in midstream to make L10 a singlestack only entry. Lets piss off a bunch of shooters that have been shooting double stacks in L10, and let people who want to shoot guns like a Hi Power shoot Limited against the major cal S-I limited guns. Then lets wonder why membership has not reached to where it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Quote: from Duane Thomas on 2:00 pm on Jan. 16, 2003 "I distinctly remember the .38S loaded up to major without much trouble. In fact, one of our league shooters was firing his .38S in our comp league and I commented it sounded like a .357. He said it was because the ammo was loaded up to major." Yes, but even loaded to Major pf, .38 Super will be scored Minor in Limited-10. In order to be scored Major in Limited-10 - or Limited, for that matter - the bore size must be .40 cal minimum. Good to know. I knew there was a good reason my last two 1911's I bought were .40's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 "Great! Change again in midstream to make L10 a singlestack only entry. Lets piss off a bunch of shooters that have been shooting double stacks in L10..." I don't really believe there are a "bunch of shooters that have been shooting double stacks in L10." I'm sure it happens, but the only place I've ever seen it was out at the Factory Nats. And in many cases I'm sure that was because these were Limited shooters who didn't own a singlestack - the only way they could fire the match was to download their normal match gun. Most people with doublestack .40s are firing them in Limited cuz, the thing is, if you've got all that potential magazine capacity, there's a tendency to want to use it. Actually I think you'd bring in more members by making L10 a singlestack only division. The handful of doublestack .40 shooters who might go boo-hoo would be more than compensated for by the singlestack .45 shooters who'd love a venue where they wouldn't have to go up against the guys with the huge mag funnels and taper-top mags. The singlestack .45 auto is, like, one of the most popular handguns in the world. For every S_I .40 out there, how many thousands of singlestack .45s are sold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 ...how many Glock 40's are sold??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcarr Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Quote: from Flexmoney on 1:34 pm on Jan. 17, 2003 ...how many Glock 40's are sold??? If you had a Glock, why wouldn't you go to Production? Lincoln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Flex, Plastic belongs in Production or Limited, leave L10 to the SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I see nothing wrong with L10 the way the rules are now. The intent was to draw shooters to compete after the Klinton hi cap ban of 1994, when hi caps became scarce and too expensive. Anyone can use SS right now, if they like them so much, great. I just don't think L10 should be changed just to glorify the 1911 with its own catagory. I do think Limited and L10 classifications should be the same. Whichever is higher should work nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 ummm....I'll shoot where I please, thank you very much! Production??? Why would I download to shoot that wimpy minor crap with the sissy-boys??? Might as well shoot IDPA. Seriously, if you guys want to have a place to compete with one-hundred year old equipment, do what I did...join the Single-Stack Society!!! http://www.1911society.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Really though...what is the problem? I shoot two different 8 round limit matches a month. The gun never determines the outcome. If you aren't competitive with a single-stack...practice! Don't blame the equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Quote: from Flexmoney on 3:35 pm on Jan. 17, 2003 Really though...what is the problem? ... If you aren't competitive with a single-stack...practice! Don't blame the equipment. Well said, oh and I shoot a singlestack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 LOL FLex, I love the pict!!! I can reload dang near the same with my SS as widebody so I don't really care about the hole size, I practice 90% of my reloads with a SS so they have to be perfect. Aim small, miss small right? I just think a SS only class would be cool for the 1911 lubers and since you can't use 1911 in production I don't think you should be able to use a production gun (glock/sig/hk) in L10. Fair enough? Flex, look at the glock and tell me it doesn't have a heck of a lot of 1911 design features? Mr. Browning knew his stuff, imagine what cool guns we would have if he had a cnc and modern materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 yep...JMB was out in front. Please note that I will be shooting the tupperware in every division but Revolver this year. Cheap and easy...like my sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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