ChrisMcCracken Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 (edited) I setup my 650 today to start loading for the first time since I did a few test batches at different OAL. I got my charge set, and then moved on to setting the OAL. I took apart my redding comp seater and cleaned it, starting from scratch. My goal is 1.200, but after loading up 25 rounds I found lengths all over the place, from 1.97 to 2.05. What could be causing this? How do I fix it? Thanks Chris Edit: More to the question: Is anything wrong? Should I expect a certain variability in OAL? I just went back and measured some of my left over rounds from the match, and this doesn't appear to be a new thing. Should I just set for an average? Edited March 26, 2007 by Erucolindon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Sounds like you're loading .40's? and probably not a compressed load... Get started again, and don't measure the first 5 rounds. After the first 5 rounds, all of the stations will be filled and that makes a difference. Don't measure the last 5 rounds either as you're finishing. Mixed headstamp brass will also affect OAL. Besides that, make sure that the stop you feel on the downstroke is consiistent. Try to get the same feel and 'click' when you hit the stop. FWIW, that's not such a huge spread in OAL. It's definitely more than I like to see (+- .002 is what I will accept with single headstamp brass and +- .003 is the most I'll accept for mixed.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I notice that 2 main things can have an effect on my oal: First make sure that you have a case in eash position of the press by excluding the first 4 bullets from the batch. Secondly, make sure that you are using the appropriate side of the seater die. Seaters usually have one insert for round nose projectiles and another for flat points and SWC projectiles. Finally , I have experienced some minor inconsistencies where the shape of the round nose projectile was not consistent and the die was contacting the projectile along the curve of the projectile. In this instance there is nothing beyond more consistent projectiles that will help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airic Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I have actually been having problems with this subject also. I reload on a RCBS rockchucker ( I know, someone shoot me). I have been trying to load to an overall length of 1.135 and my OAL has been from 1.130 to 1.140. It has worried me. I am loading 9mm major.....i know thats gotta make a large difference in pressure in the round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I have actually been having problems with this subject also. I reload on a RCBS rockchucker ( I know, someone shoot me). I have been trying to load to an overall length of 1.135 and my OAL has been from 1.130 to 1.140. It has worried me.I am loading 9mm major.....i know thats gotta make a large difference in pressure in the round. Are you shooting a glock? That is very short for 9 major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airic Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Ya, forgot to mention that part. Glock 9 major Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Ya, forgot to mention that part. Glock 9 major Unless you're using True Blue or SP2, you're probably running a compressed load. That will always play a role/add to the inconsistent OAL issue(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 Sounds like you're loading .40's? and probably not a compressed load...Get started again, and don't measure the first 5 rounds. After the first 5 rounds, all of the stations will be filled and that makes a difference. Don't measure the last 5 rounds either as you're finishing. Mixed headstamp brass will also affect OAL. Besides that, make sure that the stop you feel on the downstroke is consiistent. Try to get the same feel and 'click' when you hit the stop. FWIW, that's not such a huge spread in OAL. It's definitely more than I like to see (+- .002 is what I will accept with single headstamp brass and +- .003 is the most I'll accept for mixed.) Actually, I'm loading .45, clays, moly LRN from masterblastersbullets.com. Most of those were with all the stations full, but the biggest section of them were around 1.203. I'll pay closer attention to how it loads with all stations full, and I'll be sure to pull the first and last 5 from the batch. They are mixed headstamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Actually, I'm loading .45, clays, moly LRN from masterblastersbullets.com. Most of those were with all the stations full, but the biggest section of them were around 1.203. I'll pay closer attention to how it loads with all stations full, and I'll be sure to pull the first and last 5 from the batch. They are mixed headstamp. If you have some spare time and enough brass, I would try to separate your brass and just load up a pile of the same brass. I'm thinking the mixed headstamps might be contributing to the OAL variance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ38super Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I used to get worked up with this in the beginning as well. Try these steps first. 1) Take a batch of bullets and measure them, you will see a variance there, now ad in extra for the round noes as they are not contacted by the tip. 2) Isolate the mixed brass into groups and check them that way 3) Set you calipers to the variance you speak of and see how little it really is 4) Remember we are shooting a handgun on the move as fast as you push it There are going to be very few if any people who can shoot accurate enough to exploit the variance to being good or bad with the type of shooting we are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Get and keep your shell plate as tignt as possible and still let the shell plate advance. Your variance is not that bad.-----------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 Thanks. I got the feeling after initially posting that I might be overly worried, but I wasn't sure. I just tightened my shell plate, and I'll look at grouping my brass together. I'm not sure my 1500 brass that I have left is worth sorting. I may pay extra to get new/single stamp brass next time. My main concern was just not wanting to make dangerous loads, not so much about making any difference that I'll be able to see in my shooting. Loading .45 at 1.200, I'm not sure what the absolute minimum OAL should be. I'll probably tighten it down a bit more so the bulk are around 1.200 instead of 1.203 and then load a large batch. Thanks again for all the help. Any other suggestions, observations, or general pontifications are welcome. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 First, please be aware that this is only ammunition. It is not .000" tolerance by any means. Almost all round nose bullets are seated by pushing down not on the nose of the bullet, (where there would be very little contact with the bullet seat stem) but on some portion of the curved side of the bullet, called the ogive. When seating a bullet, the seat stem contacts a given diameter on the side of the bullet, and pushes the bullet down a given distance. Most bullet seating depth variation is caused by the contact diamter on the bullet being higher or lower on the side of the bullet, differing from one bullet to the next. Often this varies by several thousanths, but I have measured up to .026" variation in 100 9mm bullets by a well-known maker. If you set up the seat die with a fired case in the sizing station, you should eliminate the variation from the toolhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I got a huge order of quality FMJs from a major manufacturer. When I mic the ammo during loading I get lengths that vary and found the cause to be the nose profile on the bullets. I can now see the nose differences as they come around on the 1050 and know when to expect long or short ones. They still shoot fine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 If you put a shim in the press body where the toolhead slides in it will also help keep your OAL more consistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 If you put a shim in the press body where the toolhead slides in it will also help keep your OAL more consistant. JAX..... That's a great idea! Thanks, MJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 If you put a shim in the press body where the toolhead slides in it will also help keep your OAL more consistant. Can you provide pictures? I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I don't have any pics of it. I have some very thin stainless steel shim stock used for scope mounting etc.(available from Brownells). On the press where the toolhead slides in I cut a piece for each side that fits in the groove for the toolhead. I insert them and slide the toolhead over them and it takes out the vertical play. Hope this made it clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
born-in-45 Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 UniqueTech also has a kit that replaces the pins that hold the toolhead in place with a set of screws and threaded inserts. This eliminates any possible variance due to toolhead "looseness". Shims are certainly a cheaper alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted March 29, 2007 Author Share Posted March 29, 2007 OH! I just wasn't picturing what you were talking about. For some reason, the term toolhead wasn't registering. That makes sense. I'll look into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaels Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 uniquetek.com - install their system to your toolheads, it takes up all the slop in the heads on the 650 where they slide into the press. OAL changes are not a problem any more. Cheap and easy to do. michaels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 I won't be shimming the 1050 I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaJoe Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 When I first started loading on my 550 I saw the same thing you are and freaked out. I was loading 45 ACP. Now I just blow it off if it's less that .005. My OAL is usually 1.130 +/- .005. Shoots great so I don't bother getting too precise. It's pistol ammo that I'm loading in volumes to shoot volumes, not rifle ammo. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 If you watch the tool head as you load it forces the tool head to the top of the channel as the handle is lowered. The tool head was meant to float, if you lock it down the machine is not as smooth and the alignment of the dies and shell plate can be a problem. Just get the rock out of the shell plate and dont worry about a few thousanths varation in OAL. Most of the varation is caused by the diffrence in bullet shape and how they fit the die.-----------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherryriver Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Usually I'm not too worried about getting down to the last ten-thousandth, but about a year and a half ago I was getting enough variation in my .45s with Rainier 230s that it was beginning to cause feeding problems even in my ultra-reliable Combat Commander. I naturally thought something was amiss with the Dillion 550 I was using and so called Dillon. As usual, they had an answer instantly: Rainier had put out a huge run of 230 RNs with inconsistent ogives, perhaps deformed in an improperly-set up strike process (as a guess), and that was what was happening. End of last box in load, end of problem. The CCC is back up close to 4000 rounds without a stick, incidentally. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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