996fan2007 Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Convert it to .40 and you have a Limited gun that can hold 21+1 with a 6 inch "cone lock barrel" for under $1000. It'd probably be even better if you lighten the slide. What do y'all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 The extension, from the pics on the EAA website, make the extra length on the barrel look like it's not part of the slide, which would make me think it's clamped onto the barrel itself. That, I believe, would make it a barrel weight and put you in open. But I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 (edited) The extension, from the pics on the EAA website, make the extra length on the barrel look like it's not part of the slide, which would make me think it's clamped onto the barrel itself. That, I believe, would make it a barrel weight and put you in open.But I could be wrong. That would be a cool Limited gun. But.... looking at the picture, I kinda agree about that "barrel weight" thing, and maybe it should be in Open.... but it sure did not stop them from approving other pistols with "weights", like non-ported ribbed hybrid barrels, bull barrels, slab slides, or full length dust covers..... and other guns with what sure looks like external, seperate comp shaped weights (but are an "expansion chamber", not a weight - but wouldn't an expansion chamber be a kind of comp?) Ok now I'm confused. Who knows whats legal from day to day. (edited to remove references to specific manufacturers) Edited March 20, 2007 by sfinney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996fan2007 Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 (edited) The rule says: "18. External modifications such as weights, or devices to control or reduce recoil are specifically not allowed, such as but not limited to, thumb rest, extended slide stops, etc." But what is a "modification?" This hasn't been "modified" by anyone; it's straight from the manufacturer. If STI's TruSight is legal and isn't considered an external modification designed to control or reduce recoil, then I think EAA should be able to claim that the thing on the end of the Hunter's barrel is a "front sight holder" designed to increase sight radius that in no way is designed to control or reduce recoil. FWIW, EAA's description of the Witness Hunter does not mention recoil reduction at all. Edited March 20, 2007 by 996fan2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I don't think of that as a modification. It's just the way they make the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996fan2007 Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 I don't think of that as a modification.It's just the way they make the gun. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 The way it should be ruled/enforced in Limited, Anything that extendeds beyond the front of the slide by more than .200 will be illegal. No barrel can not be shorter than the slide. With this manufactured numbers wouldn't apply. Just the way I see it. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 You could be onto something. There are fans of a 6" "fat-free" limited gun. Why not a Tanfoglio? That platform certainly has the mag capacity, accuracy and reliability as demonstrated by Graufel and Walgren's occasional entries in Limited/Standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996fan2007 Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 (edited) The way it should be ruled/enforced in Limited, Anything that extendeds beyond the front of the slide by more than .200 will be illegal. No barrel can not be shorter than the slide. With this manufactured numbers wouldn't apply.Just the way I see it. Rich I wholeheartedly agree with you; in fact, there's a post over on the USPSA forum that suggests a few rule changes including that one that I agree with. But, that's not how they're written now. With that in mind, I think that if the STI TruSight and SVI Sighttracker are legal, it would smack of unfairness if the EAA Witness Hunter were to be excluded. At that point, we might as well stop calling it "Limited" and start officially calling it what it's practically become . . . "S_I Division." Anyone know if they make a .40 barrel for it, or how hard it would be to get one? I asked the same question over in the EAA / Tanfoglio Shop section, but haven't gotten a response yet. Edited March 20, 2007 by 996fan2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I saw one of these at the SHOT Show (EAA Hunter)and for 07 they are going to a full six inch slide. NO barrel attachment. The nice lady I talked to had no idea if they would do a 40 S&W in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996fan2007 Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 I saw one of these at the SHOT Show (EAA Hunter)and for 07 they are going to a full six inch slide. NO barrel attachment. The nice lady I talked to had no idea if they would do a 40 S&W in it. I don't suppose you would happen to have pics or know where we could find some, would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Ok... but if this is illegal.. what about the tru-sight? or whatever from STI? That gun is limited legal AND has a comp.. i know we all expect comps to have ports. but if you make back bore a piece of steel and create an expansion chamber... well they did this in the late 80's and from the guys i talked to it worked as a pretty darn efficient comp. compared to just weight or nothing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 (edited) If they do build a version with 6" slide and 6" barrel, it might be the shiz in Limited. For anyone spending less than $2400 that is... Edited March 21, 2007 by eric nielsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Anyone remember the SPS "Pelican" version of the long/heavy dust cover they showed in Frontsite a while back? Yes - I know those are not yet imported to the US. But given that gun & the STI Limited gun with the compensator (trusite) I can't see how the Tanfoglio factory gun would be outside the limited rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I saw one of these at the SHOT Show (EAA Hunter)and for 07 they are going to a full six inch slide. NO barrel attachment. The nice lady I talked to had no idea if they would do a 40 S&W in it. I don't suppose you would happen to have pics or know where we could find some, would you? Nope, no picture, maybe Henning can respond to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 If they sent the information about production numbers it might could work for limited. Can't really tell much by that picture though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Special conditions: 16. Any complete handgun or components produced by a factory and available to the general public for one year and 500 produced. Prototypes are specifically not allowed. I bet EAA has sold many "longslide" top ends in various calibers, many more than 500, and for at least the last 15 or so years or longer. And the frame has obviously been available as well. So wouldn't the "Hunter" be legal by default (if they go to a pure longslide config), as in the "or components" clause? I think thats how the Sight Tracker was legal so fast; ribbed non ported hybrid barrels, and hybrid cut slides had been produced in #s in excess of 500, and over a year, as components, so it was then ok on Limited guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I sent off an email to dnroi@uspsa.org earlier this month asking about this gun and never got a response. Has anyone else asked them? I had forgotten about it until I saw this thread. Sounds like I need to ask again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996fan2007 Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 Special conditions:16. Any complete handgun or components produced by a factory and available to the general public for one year and 500 produced. Prototypes are specifically not allowed. I bet EAA has sold many "longslide" top ends in various calibers, many more than 500, and for at least the last 15 or so years or longer. And the frame has obviously been available as well. So wouldn't the "Hunter" be legal by default (if they go to a pure longslide config), as in the "or components" clause? I think thats how the Sight Tracker was legal so fast; ribbed non ported hybrid barrels, and hybrid cut slides had been produced in #s in excess of 500, and over a year, as components, so it was then ok on Limited guns. Since the current TruSight and Sighttracker were ruled legal, why wouldn't the current Hunter be considered legal as well? They must have made at least 500 of them. Now if someone would just make 500 barrels in .40 s&w, I'd think EAA would have a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Now if someone would just make 500 barrels in .40 s&w, I'd think EAA would have a winner. I bet that EAA (or someone, back when) has made many, many 6" .40 barrels at some point....... "longslides" were a popular option on these things back in the 90's, what was the length of those barrels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinnsyk Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Here's a picture of the 2007 Hunter Model. I've got some on order along with Limited 40's and Gold Team 38's. Working on shop pages where you can order the gun along with all necessary accessories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996fan2007 Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 Here's a picture of the 2007 Hunter Model. I've got some on order along with Limited 40's and Gold Team 38's. Working on shop pages where you can order the gun along with all necessary accessories. While I like the beavertail, thin grips, squared triggerguard, and fine checkering, why did EAA suddenly downgrade the rear sight? What's the price going to be? How much to add an ambi on there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Guys, Sent the email below off to John Amidon: Dear Sir, I would like to inquire as to whether the EAA Witness Hunter pistol as pictured on page 6 of the EAA corp 2007 catalog would be legal for use in limited division. Below is a link to the catalog in question: http://www.eaacorp.com/EAA2007Catalog.pdf Peter Adams CRO FY-39604 got the following response: Hi Peter, Sorry to say, no. It is considered a proto type. Yes there are other 6" guns out there that are legal, as well as the STI TruSight with the expansion chamber such as the Hunter has, but the STI was approved in a 5" barrel and only .40S&W caliber. NROI has nothing on file from EAA requesting this gun be approved for Limited and that a minimum of 500 have been produced and available to the general public. Regards, John Amidon So it seems that it is not a problem with any features of the gun but rather with the proof of production numbers. Maybe someone close to EAA or Tanfoglio could get that ball rolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) Amidon: "NROI has nothing on file from EAA requesting this gun be approved forLimited and that a minimum of 500 have been produced and available to the general public." So it seems that it is not a problem with any features of the gun but rather with the proof of production numbers. Maybe someone close to EAA or Tanfoglio could get that ball rolling? Ok, thats what bugs me about the current language of "500 produced", etc. Is there an official, restrictive list of guns that are approved for Limited? No? So why does anyone have to write in for one to be "approved"? Shouldn't it be more like approved by default unless the gun does not meet one of the other specified Limited Div criteria, or it can be proven to be a "proto type" not constructed of "components" made in excess of 500? (And that doesn't even begin to address the can of worms the "or components" wording opens up in the discussion.) We need a Limited Box, with no optics, no porting/comps, 9mm or larger, maybe a weight restriction, otherwise run it. Sigh. Looks like EAA/Tanfoglio needs to send in the numbers for both the old Hunter, and especially the NEW 2007 Hunter, that looks like the ticket if you want to build a "fat free" type 6" EAA. (Edited - its been pointed out that the ruling about G20 and .40 barrels was aimed at Prod ) Edited March 28, 2007 by sfinney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
996fan2007 Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 Strange, I don't see anything in the rules against a "caliber change." Surely >500 .40 barrels for the Glock have been made, as well as the other parts in the Glock 20. If someone where to claim it such a change would cause it to be considered a prototype, if so, then what gun built from the ground up by a gunsmith couldn't be considered a prototype? Regardless, I hope EAA does what it can to get the new Hunter approved for Limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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