Steve Moneypenny Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I have a load for the precision 147's and they work fine out of my witness elite stock. But they won't work in anything else.. they all seem to tumble, i've shortened them substantially ( maybe too much) and am still getting these results. I'm running 3.2 of tite group. so not a high powered load by any means. I appreciate any conclusions anyone can draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I shoot .40 in a 185 gr (184.7 this last batch) for minor and major PF (using VV 320) and the things are accurate as any jacketed bullet I have used in the past. The only thing I can think of is case flair dia on seating and crimp maybe shaving the coating causing it to peel. I flair about .030-.035" over the sized case dimension and crimp to .420-.421 and have notice no coating peel whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 3.2 ? Are they tumbling to the ground as they fall out of the barrel ? (Is that a really low charge? It sounds low.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted March 8, 2007 Author Share Posted March 8, 2007 flex, that's my 135 power factor charge... the 147 takes up lots of room inside the 9mm case. humm too much crimp maybe.. i don't think that's it.. but possible i'll back it off some. plenty of bell on the expander die. so it's not stripping coating there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Steve - TG has been known to do that with certain plated bullets (as has N320) - though you are the 1st I have heard of who had coated bullets tumble w/ a fast powder. For reasons I can't explain, slower powders seem to "cure" the problem - though at the cost of more recoil. Didn't you & Bob get 180s to work in the 9mm? (and I seem to recall you were using N310). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Not to hijack this thread, but is there any residue left in the barrel w/ precison bullets, and if so, what type of cleaning do you do for the barrel? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I have had Precision Black bullets in various loads and calibers which did not do well at all...until I adjusted the crimp to a "looser" hold on the bullet. Made my problems go away. I would suggest starting with the crimp and see if you can back off a little... And just perhaps you might try a few with a little hotter charge and see if you note a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 as for residue. I really don't get hardly any residue what i do. goes away with a couple rounds of jacketed, or normal barrel solvent cleaning. Carlos. yes. we did. there were a lot of issues most importantly bob quit running the bullet machines to get his masters in education. second. it took the bullet a long time to get there even with good power factor third lead smoke. fourth high number of rounds tossed out because of bumps in the brass(certain brass is thicker than others and supprise too much bullet and brass makes a little bump ( those things went WAAAAY deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Steve - I had Dave make me 1k of them sized .358 to try them out in my round guns. Unfortunately, the nose shape doesn't permit easy speedloads, and Lord knows I need all the help I can get with those. I decided to use them up, loaded to 1.14" in 9x19. They run fine in my Beretta, but are too big for my CZ's chamber. I use 3.7 grains of Unique, and they run about 930 fps. No problem with either tumbling or stripping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 as for residue. I really don't get hardly any residue what i do. goes away with a couple rounds of jacketed, or normal barrel solvent cleaning. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hapi Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 i used faster burning powder with the precision bullets and got lots of smoke. I used TG and Red Dot. I switched to W231 and the smoke went down, but it increased the recoil. it shot very snappy. I didnt get much leading at all and 2-3 swipes of a brass brush and everything was clean. i can't decide what i want to get next, though. precision delta FMJ are only $3 more per 1000 at the bulk quantity that i'm going to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 Buy all the precision delta you can now.. prices will go up as soon as they get the market share they want. (just like zero) Biggest reason i made the switch to precision is i wanted a supply i could count on that wouldn't sky rocket like zero's did this past year. i can remember buying them for under $60/K for the 2006 season.. now they are $75/ for this season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 (edited) It's the crimp Steve - back it off. Too much crimp gouges/tears the plating/jacket -just enough to shear a sliver off as the bullet leaves the case. A 30o turn/reduction in the crimp die, or even a dirty crimp die, can make a difference. I run Berry's 9mm 147s/38 158s & TG in my SSR (TG), ESR (Unique), ESP (TG) & SSP (TG) loads. The 9mm 147/TG loads/Dillon crimp dies seem to be most prone to the condition. Edited March 9, 2007 by Bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hapi Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 Buy all the precision delta you can now.. prices will go up as soon as they get the market share they want. (just like zero) Biggest reason i made the switch to precision is i wanted a supply i could count on that wouldn't sky rocket like zero's did this past year. i can remember buying them for under $60/K for the 2006 season.. now they are $75/ for this season... powdervalley has Zero bullets for $54 per 1000. thats a good deal. the precision delta will be about $50 per 1000, if i buy bulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 A while back I was trying to run Masterblaster coated bullets with Bullseye in my Glocks and had tumbling. They told me I would have to switch to a slower powder. I switched to jacketed bullets instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I have had Precision Black bullets in various loads and calibers which did not do well at all...until I adjusted the crimp to a "looser" hold on the bullet. Made my problems go away. I would suggest starting with the crimp and see if you can back off a little... And just perhaps you might try a few with a little hotter charge and see if you note a difference. +1 I have run nothing but Precision Molys in 40. Ran N310 loaded long with no crimp. I now run TG and still have not had one tumble and load on an SDB. I ran Berry 147gn with TG in 9mm (Lee Dies on 550). I would pull some bullets after loading a few and if a saw a ring from the brass I backed off the crimp until no visible line on the bullet. STI/glock barrels. I believe Vogel runs Precision also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 well i went down to zero crimp today... that didn't help. maybe I'll up the charge tomorrow, i can't up it much safely i don't believe. I tried the 115's and that didn't seem to be a problem. i'm done with large quantities of zeros... there is no way powder valley is selling 147's for that. if so they won't be monday because i'll have bought them all. my pistol loves them for b ullseye work. not a big fan of master blasters either. I really think it has the most to do with the riflings of the other guns the Stock seems to have a twist rate that is a little different, from comments i've heard and my own conclusions. Maybe i'll shoot 125's in my other guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Steve - Whatever the problem is, it's not the rate of twist. Back in the 60s, a popular police load was the "Super Police" load, which was a .38 Special 200 grain RNL that ran in the 600-700 fps range. There weren't any problems with tumbling, and the rates of twist ranged from 1 in 14" in Colt revolvers to 1 in 18-3/4" in S&Ws. Most current 9x19s have 1 in 10" rates of twist. You might want to call Dave and ask if he has any sized larger than .356" and see if that's the problem. You might just have an oversized bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 It's not just one gun though it's my glock, beretta, springfield 1911 a beretta PX4 and 2 tanfoglio's with the pencil thin barrel. Maybe i'll try more powder today. i have some VV 330 maybe i'll try that. and play some more with seating deapth. they don't tumble in my olympic arms 9mm carbine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 well, that settles it .................... you must shoot carbine division this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 I do plan to do some pistol caliber carbine shoot throughs at matches where they will permit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillGarlandJr Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I think you will have better luck with the N330. My limited experience with the molly bullets in 9mm showed they did not really like the faster burning powders very well. Have you chrono'd the 3.2 TG load yet? You might be able to drop the charge a bit. I've heard some people claim to get a 130ish pf with charges of TG ranging from 3.2 to 3.4 with jacketed and plated bullets. When I shot the Precisions in Limited and L10 I found them to be a bit faster than jacketed bullets, and therefore required a smaller charge. Good luck with your load development. Please let us know how it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 I run around one 133-135 power factor with that load. I have a CED infared, and it was chronno'd at about that at nationals too. I really don't want to drop the charge. i like my steel to fall i've considered running 140 PF after this past years USPSA nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 I ran into a keyhole problem with some 147 gr lead bullets in my G34. The gun just did not like those bullets. It shoots 147 gr plated and jacketed very accurately. BTW I just chrono'd my wife's SSP load. 3.0 gr of TG at a 1.140" OAL 147 gr. Berry bullet. Average fps was 885 out of a G34. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
instructor Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 I ran into a keyhole problem with some 147 gr lead bullets in my G34. The gun just did not like those bullets. It shoots 147 gr plated and jacketed very accurately. BTW I just chrono'dmy wife's SSP load. 3.0 gr of TG at a 1.140" OAL 147 gr. Berry bullet. Average fps was 885 out of a G34. I just ran 20 147 Precisions with 3.2 of IMR 700x. Cronied at 875......no smoke, no tumbling and shoots like a 22! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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