SmittyFL Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 I'm looking for a steel load with my open gun. I currently use 4756 or N105 plus have some titegroup for limited so I'd like to stay with one of those. Also like to stay with the MG124 HP. 3 port comp, no holes. Anyone have a good starting point for charge and recoil spring? I'm guessing 140 to 150 power factor is what I'm looking for but I'm not even sure about that. 5 or 6 pound spring maybe? Any idears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Smitty... if you can go w/ a lighter bullet, more possibilities open up... I think BJ is running a 98gr (??) .380 bullet w/ Titegroup... Truth is, you can get a working steel load with any of those combos, although I suspect N105 is way too slow for this purpose. I loaded up 7.0gr of 4756 under a 125 at one point, and it worked just fine. Nice and soft in my gun. I could've probably gone with less, and I didn't chrono it - was just trying to burn up some powder, really. Faster powders seem to be better in the cleanliness department for these loads - the slower ones don't burn completely, it seems. The thing w/ lighter bullets is they can shave time off for you, at least at the actual Steel Challenge match. The stop plates are wired and its the bullet striking the stop plate that stops the clock. So, a lighter bullet is more desirable, as you can run a light load, and still maintain bullet velocity... As far as springs go, most folks find that anything lighter than a 7 leads to feeding problems - at least the folks I've talked to who've tried. I haven't run anything lighter than a 10# spring in my gun, yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 7.5 grains of 4756 gave me 145 pf out of my non ported ipsc gun. Ran ok with a 9 lb. recoil spring if a bit dirty. Oh yeah a 121 mg bullet. 4.7- 5. grains of n320 will also work in addition to being cleaner. Anything lighter than 9 lb. recoil spring and the functioning with a non lightened slide gets pretty clunky. I'm gonna play with lighter bullets this year, note that JJ likes the feel of 124's , surprised me when i found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 I think that 4.2g of TG with a 124/125 is a commonly quoted load for minor in a 9mm length round. (You'd be smart to double check my memory.) For Super Comp length, I'd probably build some test loads at 4.2g, 4.5g, 4.8g, and 5.0g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 There oughta be a bunch of steel loads over in the reloading section.. I know I've posted 'em a time or two. FWIW, Max ran 5g N320 and a 115 XTP the year he won. I've used that load and it's as good or better/cleaner than most, though I don't believe there's such a thing as a clean Super steel load. I found TG to be both very hot burning and not clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted December 24, 2006 Author Share Posted December 24, 2006 Thanks. I'm too lazy at the moment to work up a totally different load with different bullets....especially only casually shooting steel. These should get me started, I'll report what I end up going with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Smitty, I easily fall into the lazy category. I would buy some Zero 108gr projectiles and use them with your existing load. That will make the gun softer and flatter with little or no effort and the gun will likely run about the same as it does now. You could always drop the powder charge a little if you feel the need. I just think that the gun will feel familiar enough (although better) that you do not have to re-learn the feel of the gun. I even have a few 88 or 95 grs if you feel the need to get radical. They will definitely work with your existing load. Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 FWIW The 108s would not shoot at all in 9x19 with my guns, 88 and 95jhps will stack on each other all day long, but the 108 zeros are a stinker in my guns wtih W231 and VV320...... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 FWIW The 108s would not shoot at all in 9x19 with my guns, 88 and 95jhps will stack on each other all day long, but the 108 zeros are a stinker in my guns wtih W231 and VV320......DougC My experiences were the exact opposite. The 108's were sized .356 and drove tacks. The lighter bullets were acceptable but did not shoot as accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Leo, that is why each gun is different and we have so much irriation....er ...I mean fun working up loads for our guns..... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 I tried the trick of replacing the 125's with the 108's...and keeping the powder the same. I had a bit of trouble. But, everybody else seems to do well with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Flex, What kind of problem did you have with the 108's? I loved that bullet for USPSA before they outlawed it. A 108 with just over 18 grs of powder at ~1640 was the closest thing to the feel of an AR in a pistol. Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJPoLo Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 I'm looking for a steel load with my open gun. I currently use 4756... Also like to stay with the MG124 HP. I'm running 6.0 grains of 4756 under the 124 in .38 Soopah Comp. -Chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 The load just didn't have enough ass to it to cycle my gun (granted, not a lightly sprung STI to start with). I would have had to change the setup of my plastic fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 So let me get this right. For the 108gr loads, you use the same powder charge and keep everything in the gun the same ie. springs. That sounds like something i would like to try out. Where do i get 108gr bullets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 Where do i get 108gr bullets? Zero Bullet Co. http://208.178.180.130/mm5/merchant.mvc?Sc...ry_Code=JPB-9MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.J. Norris Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 (edited) Also try the 95 JHP's from Montana Gold, they are a hair cheaper than the Zero's (per case) and they work great in my 9MM, though I haven't tried them in Supercomp. Shred bought a case to try out in 38 Super, but I don't know if he's loaded them up yet. www.montanagoldbullet.com Edited December 26, 2006 by B.J. Norris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 (edited) Also try the 95 JHP's from Montana Gold, they are a hair cheaper than the Zero's (per case) and they work great in my 9MM, though I haven't tried them in Supercomp. Shred bought a case to try out in 38 Super, but I don't know if he's loaded them up yet. www.montanagoldbullet.com Hey BJ, Whats your 9mm steel load? I tried the 95's last year with .38 SC couldn't find a powder that burned clean enough at the velocity i was looking for. Trying 9mm this year. Edited December 26, 2006 by ong45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 FWIW, I just ordered two cases of the 95gr MG JHPs after testing them. I am using around 4.5gr of W231 at around 1.150 (9x19) in my cone comp gun. I am having bushing comp gun built right now and should be able to run the load lighter, and will probably be around 3.6 or so with VV 320. I am waiting to load up the ammo till I get the new gun....... If I was loading TG I would start at 4.5 and chrono from there, but for steel I dont use TG anymore, gun gets too hot too fast.... Good luck, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Also try the 95 JHP's from Montana Gold, they are a hair cheaper than the Zero's (per case) and they work great in my 9MM, though I haven't tried them in Supercomp. Shred bought a case to try out in 38 Super, but I don't know if he's loaded them up yet. www.montanagoldbullet.com Hey BJ, Whats your 9mm steel load? I tried the 95's last year with .38 SC couldn't find a powder that burned clean enough at the velocity i was looking for. Trying 9mm this year. I haven't tried the 95's yet, but IIRC (and hopefully he'll be by to correct me), BJ ran a pretty fast load last year-- closer to 1200 fps than 1000-- at his pace, the bullet flight time becomes worth minimizing. That also might help with cleaner burning as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 at his pace, the bullet flight time becomes worth minimizing. At pretty much any pace, the bullet flight time is worth minimizing at the Steel Challenge Didn't you figure out that the bullet flight time was worth relatively significant time, at one point?? I forget the number, but... Enough to change places by a couple, IIRC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 FWIW, I just ordered two cases of the 95gr MG JHPs after testing them. I am using around 4.5gr of W231 at around 1.150 (9x19) in my cone comp gun. I am having bushing comp gun built right now and should be able to run the load lighter, and will probably be around 3.6 or so with VV 320. I am waiting to load up the ammo till I get the new gun....... If I was loading TG I would start at 4.5 and chrono from there, but for steel I dont use TG anymore, gun gets too hot too fast....Good luck, DougC thanks i'll try n320 Do you have any chrono data on your 231 load? Clean or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Hi James, Here is my chrono data for 9x19 with OAL of 1.150 with MG 95jhp(wsp) 3.8 VV320 950fps 4.0 W231 981fps 4.4 W231 1050fps As far as being clean, I had no problem with 2-3 trips to the range with just oiling the gun before break down and blasting with break cleaner(guns hardchromed). For steel I love the characteristics of W231, plus the accuracy is a bonus, and I can also get an 8lber for around $100, so it is economical as well. Regards, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 at his pace, the bullet flight time becomes worth minimizing. At pretty much any pace, the bullet flight time is worth minimizing at the Steel Challenge Didn't you figure out that the bullet flight time was worth relatively significant time, at one point?? I forget the number, but... Enough to change places by a couple, IIRC... Well, the flight time adds a second or two to everybody's overall match time versus a timer, which is significant. The delta between a 1000 fps load and a 1200 fps load is considerably less.. on the order of an extra shot or two, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.J. Norris Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Hey Guys, My current load in 9x19 is 5.1 grs of TG under a 95 gr Montana Gold JHP with a Federal Small Rifle primer, range brass for practice and new Starline for match ammo (Not only for the peace of mind for the case chambering at all, but for me the gun cycles much smoother with new Starline brass than range brass). It cycles the gun well and has almost zero recoil. Faster powders allow for enough pressure to cycle the slide well, but get the recoil pulse over sooner. (P.S. My load in 9x19 is pretty clean, I ran between 2750-3000 rounds without cleaning and zero malfunctions one day on the practice range in CA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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