Steve Anderson Posted June 16, 2002 Share Posted June 16, 2002 After I get my Docter working...I'm thinking about trying open minor with my Beretta and a ported barrel, just to see if I should get a real open gun. Does anybody shoot open minor intentionally on a regular basis? I guess If you get all A's it won't matter, huh? Easier said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Yes because I got a chance to buy a cheap used barrel and comp for a G19. Finished it off with an OKO dot and an Aimtech Tigershark Mount. My name is Nik and I'm a Glockaholic......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Well Nik admitting that you have a problem is the first step. Now if you get a 1911 or 2011 racegun I think we might be able to save you! it will be hard with you living in Jersey but we can try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Chriss, LOL! That's got two meanings here.... First you made me spill my coffee again, second one is Lots Of Luck trying to convert me to carrying one of those 40 oz. blaster...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 I shot a CZ75 9mm with an OKO sight, comp, and 24 round magazine. It was fast, handled like a .22lr pistol, and lots of fun. The biggest problem I had was that the local match I shoot most often is 99% steel and some of those big poppers just did not want to fall down! I have since abandoned the dark side and shoot a .45 in limited. Now the poppers fall with authority! -jhgtyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 There was a local M that reportably shot minor. Its not the way to compete at high levels, but shooting 50,000 minor rounds (correctly) is better than 10,000 major. Remember each "C" is 2 points off OR losing 2 "A's" you shot so hard to get. A Beretta is not a fun gun for me to shoot. If you want try mine at a match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 I recalculated the 2001 Open nationals (it wasn't easy, but curiosity compelled me) and found out that Jerry Barnhart would have finsihed 7th if he'd not shot any different and shot Minor. Now, anyone want to bet Jerry could shoot faster and more accurately at Minor than Major? Hey, he did shoot the 2000 Open with iron sights, didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted June 17, 2002 Author Share Posted June 17, 2002 Pat, Are you saying you don't think he could shoot faster or more accurately in minor? No, I don't want to bet. I just want to see if the bug bites me...I'm betting it will, they always do. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Ill take the bet. If Jerry, Todd or Rob found minor was better they would shoot it. I find the gun is sluggesh and the breaks are slower. I think they would be better if you lightened the slide a lot with the gun. But practice is better then worrying about copying Jerry's gun like a mirror. Jerry can shoot an iron sight faster than 99% of people shot a red dot. Its a different league. Yes 2000 was iron sights and comp at major. But that was a lot of open targets. Check out his finish also. welcome back Holo in 2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Steve, I think you should go for it. Everybody worries too much about how the big dogs run. I think that on a club/regional level, you can be damn competitive shooting minor. Think of the psychological accuracy advantage you'll have. You HAVE to shoot A's to win. Consequently, your shots will hit the A zone - just like freakin' magic. It's cool. Do it. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 FWIW. My old CZ's slide was as light as it could possibly get (no I don't have numbers) and the gun cycled pretty fast so that wasn't a problem. The lack of power on steel and points on paper did hurt though. -jhgtyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Steve, Go for it. But like jhgtyre said, the big poppers can be hard to knock down with minor unless they are a center hit. So, if you are loading your own ammo, don't try to get the pf too close to the floor. And try a few off center hits in practice to make sure the big popers will drop. Have fun! (Edited by warpspeed at 1:12 pm on June 17, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Yes, poppers would fall slower, but everyone already whacks them two or three times to speed them up, right? Has anyone done the testing to see if it is anything more than having fun? As for the Major gun shooting faster, they why doesn't anyone shoot Major at the Steel Challenge? To hear the plates get hit? We all know you must see the sight (or dot) lift off the plate, if you wait for the sound you're toast. So, could it be that we have for so long believed in the manifest superiority of Major that no one has thought to give Minor a test and compare the numbers? Yes, the big dogs think of "everything" but sometimes they don't. Brian, any insights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted June 18, 2002 Author Share Posted June 18, 2002 That's kinda what I was thinking, but could not articulate as well. I've got thousands of hours of Beretta trigger time and I don't really want to learn a new draw, grip, etc if I don't have to. I'm having the gun built anyway, and may just give it a whirl with 15 rounders. Another related question...is the slower powder theory as valid with ports as with with comps? Are we trying to make more gas or is pressure a better way to use the ports? Thanks again, SA (who sometimes makes more gas anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbear38S Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 but everyone already whacks them two or three times to speed them up, right? No. While it's great fun and I'm sure most have done it once, I rarely see it happen. It wastes time and pulls down your HF besides being a safety issue because of deflected bullets going over the berm. And there's the occasional forward falling popper too. Additional hits set 'em right back up. I hammered one of those @(#*$ about 3 times at the A8 last year before I remembered about the thing - actually I think it was my wife laughing at me that brought it to my attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 [utterly Unqualified Expert Mode ON] I hear the "minor won't drop poppers" shtick all the time. Now, I'm the LAST guy to ever read a rule book, but even *I* know that the poppers have to be calibrated to drop on a low 9mm hit. If you're spending a lot of time drilling poppers, you'll never, ever be a contender. Why? You're blowing SECONDS every stage watching poppers drop. Entertaining? Yes. A competitive strategy? Hardly. It doesn't matter *HOW* they drop. They can hit 10 seconds after you last shot. Therefore, there is little to no advantage to shooting Major PF for solid hits on a popper. Q.E.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Somewhere I heard something from somebody... ok, so I don't remember the exact source, but the upshot was one of the bigger names saying that in many large IPSC matches, there are often targets with insufficient A-zone, and you get forced to drop too many points if you shoot Minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Totally unscientific reply that might change as I progress as a shooter. My lowly C class self doesn't see a difference in my match scores between major and minor. I'm enough faster shooting a 9mm to make up for the points I drop, and I'm enough slower shooting a .45 to not be able to take advantage of the slightly higher points I score. Off course I'm shooting Glocks in two different frame sizes too..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 I haven't played with the numbers but unless you are running neck and neck with the top dogs I don't think in most cases it would make a big difference. Your HF will be lower but are you going to shoot faster? That is a question that I doubt will ever be answered. It would be pretty hard to tell even if you set the stage up and ran it multiple times with the same gun and one major load and one minor. The differences could be from running it repeatedly. Generally the differences in HF are bigger than what 2 or 3 points would change. Matt Burkett shoot minor at the Limited Nat. last year and still finished in the top 16. Here's a project for someone with to much time on their hands calculate it out and see if it would have made much of a difference. Then factor in the time difference or extra reloads due to less mag capacity in .40 as compared to 9 mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted June 19, 2002 Author Share Posted June 19, 2002 Maybe Matt will tell us what he was thinking... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 If I remember correctly Matt was banking on the extra rounds for less reloads. He said that it was a match that really didn't give the advantage that he had hoped for as the reload issue wasn't that big of an advantage. Just playing with the numbers I cut Matt's points down in half and used the same times. I didn't count stages that he had penalties on. Looks like he shot a fairly accurate match. Minor compared to major was about 30-35 match points difference. The extra points would have moved him up to 15th from 18th. There is no way to calculate if his times would have been the same or slower shooting major. Matt is a hell of a shooter so I doubt that it would have been a big difference. He had a bunch of stages that he shot 100% of the points possible or only a couple points down. I guess it comes down to can you shoot minor substantially faster than major and be accurate. This was all in a 20 stage match. The difference came out to be about 2%. It doesn't seem to be quite the disadvantage as one would first expect. Of course this is with a guy of Matt's shooting ability. I'm not sure if it would translate down to us normal shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Quote: from Chriss Grube on 10:55 pm on June 16, 2002 I think we might be able to save you! it will be hard with you living in Jersey but we can try. Hey!!!!! Whats wrong with Jersey? Nik? Do I know you? Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 Brian, Welcome! Yeah, you know me. We last talked on Area 8 set-up day under the tent by the rifle range. The topic of discussion was shooting on the move. Did that jog your memory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I thought that was you. I just found this forum tonight and i actually posted what I told you here in one of the sections to someone that was asking. Did you try it out yet? How did the match go? I wish I could have shot it. Thanks again for letting me use your chrono. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 "what's wrong with Jersey?" You tell me what is right with it and we'll go from there. Most of your fellow new jerseyites agree that's why they are all moving to PA. The gun laws suck. The beaches are full of medical waste. Nobody knows what the hell a turn signal is! Do I need to go on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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