Poll Divisions To Keep

[shred]

Keep 2/3

Keep 2/3

Don't add 9/10

203 votes ( roughly 1% of the USPSA members if all 203 are members) seems like a fairly large statistical sampling for an un-scientific poll.

Um, a poll of "ONLY THE PEOPLE THAT SHOOT THE DIVISONS IN QUESTION" (as requested) is naturally going to result in a lot of 'keep' votes, doncha think?

[D.Hayden]

Keep 2/3

Keep 2/3

Don't add 9/10

203 votes ( roughly 1% of the USPSA members if all 203 are members) seems like a fairly large statistical sampling for an un-scientific poll.

Um, a poll of "ONLY THE PEOPLE THAT SHOOT THE DIVISONS IN QUESTION" (as requested) is naturally going to result in a lot of 'keep' votes, doncha think?

lol.. you would think. I still can't believe there's as many that say "don't keep" if they really shoot these divisions.

[Chuck D]

Interesting poll results. I'd really like to see a USPSA wide poll and its results.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Chuck D

[cliffy109]

Here is my totally selfish view of things. I would prefer to shoot single stack. I enjoy it and like the challenge. What I don't like is the complete lack of competition. In the small club matches, I'm usually one of two who shoot it. In the larger monthly matches, I'm one of 3 or 4. Even in a big Sectional, there were only 4 SS shooters and one of those was a Grand Master. It doesn't offer much chance for a C class shooter to develop and judge his performance against others with similar guns and gear.

I got tired of it and have switched to L10. I don't like it as much and feel like I'm in more of a gear competition against guys with gaping mag wells, heavy guns with dust covers and speed holsters of all sorts. I have no idea why most of these guys are not just shooting Limited anyway. At least there are a few guys with single stack pistols with 10 round magazines hanging out the bottom.

What I would like is to grow the SS division. There are three things that would accomplish this:

1. Allow other single stack guns such as the Sig 220 and the S&W. It doesn't need to be a 1911 only division.

2. Eliminate the rule that allows 170mm magazines for single stack guns in L10. That will move those shooters into the SS division.

3. Stop this whole "provisional" madness where shooting classifiers in SS don't get recorded. Yeah, I know... those scores are kept and will be applied if it goes mainstream, but I think a lot of people, myself included, need to be able to track our progress with the classifiers. Sure there are ways to deal with this, but they are more hassle than they are worth. Just post the scores.

Edited November 25, 2006 by cliffy109

[Chris Keen]

WOW! The numbers are staggering.

[Micah]

WOW! The numbers are staggering.

Than we all need to let our Area Directors know what we want to see in the future!

[ima45dv8]

2. Eliminate the rule that allows 170mm magazines for single stack guns in L10. That will move those shooters into the SS division.

Which is just another way of eliminating Limited10.

I'll propose a different idea! Let's eliminate SS and move those shooters into the Limited10 division! Not very original, huh?

Or maybe both can peacefully coexist and no one would have to feel like *their* division is the one that got speared.

[cliffy109]

2. Eliminate the rule that allows 170mm magazines for single stack guns in L10. That will move those shooters into the SS division.

Which is just another way of eliminating Limited10.

I'll propose a different idea! Let's eliminate SS and move those shooters into the Limited10 division! Not very original, huh?

Or maybe both can peacefully coexist and no one would have to feel like *their* division is the one that got speared.

How would that eliminate L10? The widebody guns still would run in L10 and anybody who lives behind enemy lines who still has a magazine capacity limit would be unaffected. Glock 21s, HK USPs and CZs would still compete in L10. It would just move single stack shooters into the single stack division.

What sense does the exception make anyway? Why does it exist? Is it so single stack shooters can be competitive? Well, now single stacks have their own division so there's no need to make accomodations for them in L10.

[wide45]

2. Eliminate the rule that allows 170mm magazines for single stack guns in L10. That will move those shooters into the SS division.

Which is just another way of eliminating Limited10.

I'll propose a different idea! Let's eliminate SS and move those shooters into the Limited10 division! Not very original, huh?

Or maybe both can peacefully coexist and no one would have to feel like *their* division is the one that got speared.

How would that eliminate L10? The widebody guns still would run in L10 and anybody who lives behind enemy lines who still has a magazine capacity limit would be unaffected. Glock 21s, HK USPs and CZs would still compete in L10. It would just move single stack shooters into the single stack division.

What sense does the exception make anyway? Why does it exist? Is it so single stack shooters can be competitive? Well, now single stacks have their own division so there's no need to make accomodations for them in L10.

When I shoot my old single stack, I run in Lim10. I have no use for the restrictive rules of PSSD. You want a restrictive division, good for you. You have it. Trying to force me to shoot it is bad business, and it won't work. Leave well enough alone.

Edited November 26, 2006 by wide45

[cliffy109]

When I shoot my old single stack, I run in Lim10. I have no use for the restrictive rules of PSSD. You want a restrictive division, good for you. You have it. Trying to force me to shoot it is bad business, and it won't work. Leave well enough alone.

Well, its easy for me to leave well enough alone. I'm just a C class shooter who isn't part of the decision making process for USPSA. Just as you're self interest is to keep as many shooters in L10, mine is to get more into SSD. I want the competition. I think eliminating the 170mm mag exception would do that and would keep things a lot cleaner in the rules. There really isn't a rational reason to allow single stack shooters to have longer mags except to remain competitive against guys running race guns with race gear.

I didn't mean to stir up a hornet's nest. It was not my intention to gore anybody's ox. My suggestion was just an observation about what I see as an impediment to getting more people in the SS division.

[ima45dv8]

There really isn't a rational reason to allow single stack shooters to have longer mags except to remain competitive against guys running race guns with race gear.

THAT is the point. When you start beating those fat guns in L10 with your singlestack, you'll see the rational reason.

Hang in there and keep practicing your reloads until the only disadvantage is for the guy shooting against you.

[wide45]

I don't need to attract competitors to Lim10. They are already there.

Single Stackers shooting Lim10 have made a choice to do so. They don't want that choice taken away.

If PSSD is not attracting shooters, change PSSD.

[big_kahuna]

I got tired of it and have switched to L10. I don't like it as much and feel like I'm in more of a gear competition against guys with gaping mag wells, heavy guns with dust covers and speed holsters of all sorts. I have no idea why most of these guys are not just shooting Limited anyway. At least there are a few guys with single stack pistols with 10 round magazines hanging out the bottom.

Here's one reason why people I know are "not just shooting Limited anyway". Some of us live in California (or similar capacity restricted states like MA, NY, NJ, or HI). We can't get new magazines with capacity over 10 rounds. If Limited-10 goes away, we lose the venue where we can run our widebody guns with 10-round magazines. We can't be competitive in Limited when we have 10 rounds and everyone else has 20+ rounds. My household runs two guns in L-10, a skinny Kimber 19111 and a fat Glock 35. My glock frame has been modified and cannot be used in production.

Edited to remove my comments regarding 170mm mags and rule changes...

Edited November 26, 2006 by big_kahuna