Jim Norman Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Kathy, the two problems are unrelated. If we have a chosen range a year plus in advance there is no guarantee that the club that makes the winning bid will be there. The Board of the Club could be voted out and change its position, however having a written contract may reduce the chances of that happening. In point of fact, settling the date and location a year plus in advance should reduce the danger and also allow for more time sholod a club back out. Obviously a club could back out a month before the match, but that is highly unlikely if we have vetted the club and written the contract properly. My opinion of course. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) just did a random search on Orbitz that is somewhat encouraging 2007 Sept 17-24 Dayton OH to Tulsa $406, Dayton OH to Missoula $527 1 stop air. Course I can drive to Tulsa and cut costs drastically. Hmmm, 1500 miles roundtrip at $ .50 per mile works out to $750 round trip. Of course you save some cash not having to have a rental car, but any accountant will tell you it's not just the cost of gas you're considering...... Are you talking to Tulsa? I just glanced at receipts. It didnt cost me close to $750 and I rented a car and drove from OH with unlimited miles. It was like $200 + $120 gas. Far cry from $750 Edited November 7, 2006 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Kathy, the two problems are unrelated. If we have a chosen range a year plus in advance there is no guarantee that the club that makes the winning bid will be there. The Board of the Club could be voted out and change its position, however having a written contract may reduce the chances of that happening.In point of fact, settling the date and location a year plus in advance should reduce the danger and also allow for more time sholod a club back out. Obviously a club could back out a month before the match, but that is highly unlikely if we have vetted the club and written the contract properly. My opinion of course. Jim I'm firmly on the side of getting the dates set as early as possible, but I also understand some of what *they* are up against in negotiating these things. That's all I's trying to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 just did a random search on Orbitz that is somewhat encouraging 2007 Sept 17-24 Dayton OH to Tulsa $406, Dayton OH to Missoula $527 1 stop air. Course I can drive to Tulsa and cut costs drastically. Hmmm, 1500 miles roundtrip at $ .50 per mile works out to $750 round trip. Of course you save some cash not having to have a rental car, but any accountant will tell you it's not just the cost of gas you're considering...... Of course it's not just the gas being considered, it's also the hassle factor associated with flying with firearms. Being able to drive to a venue eliminates a lot of potential troubles. What $ figure do we assign to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 One thing about Missoula, you're not likely to send a round out over the berm. The "berm" is a fair-sized mountain that all the ranges face!There's a steak place in town there which has a lot of really good microbrews available, too! I'm sold, when do we leave? When the Area-1 match has been in Missoula, Ruby's has been the match hotelhttp://rubys.montana.com/ Rooms are about 80/night (2 adults, 2 beds), 10 minutes from range, good size rooms, lotsa restaurants (plus a wal-mart) within a couple of miles... and right across the street from McKenzie River Pizza - good beers, and be sure and try the caribbean chicken wings. yum! There are more hotels closer to downtown, if that's your thing, but they tend to cost more. B in town there which has a lot of really good microbrews available There's a place in town that has a microbrew club, and you get a special shirt when you have sampled all 50-something of their offerings. I think if someone managed to do that in the course of a match weekend, we could probably come up with a suitable award B Ok then, I accept your challenge. I may suck at shooting, but I'm a GM beer drinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 just did a random search on Orbitz that is somewhat encouraging 2007 Sept 17-24 Dayton OH to Tulsa $406, Dayton OH to Missoula $527 1 stop air. Course I can drive to Tulsa and cut costs drastically. Hmmm, 1500 miles roundtrip at $ .50 per mile works out to $750 round trip. Of course you save some cash not having to have a rental car, but any accountant will tell you it's not just the cost of gas you're considering...... Are you talking to Tulsa? I just glanced at receipts. It didnt cost me close to $750 and I rented a car and drove from OH with unlimited miles. It was like $200 + $120 gas. Far cry from $750 Yeah, once upon a time I went to accounting school ---- so when I consider driving, I think about what it actually costs me to run my truck per mile. Stuff like 32,000 purchase price plus x thousands in interest on the loan, divided by an anticipated life of 300,000 miles, then add in stuff like insurance, maintenance, repairs, etc. Best deal for me was when I owned an 85 LeSabre that I bought for $500 with a blown engine. After that was fixed, the car ran for more than 100,000 miles ---- ended up costing 16.25 cents per mile to own and run. Work was paying 22 cents a mile back then --- I actually made money off that clunker.... Renting a car with unlimited miles ---- sheer genius! Next year...... There's a place in town that has a microbrew club, and you get a special shirt when you have sampled all 50-something of their offerings. I think if someone managed to do that in the course of a match weekend, we could probably come up with a suitable award B Ok then, I accept your challenge. I may suck at shooting, but I'm a GM beer drinker. Why did that quote immediately bring Barry and you to mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 just did a random search on Orbitz that is somewhat encouraging 2007 Sept 17-24 Dayton OH to Tulsa $406, Dayton OH to Missoula $527 1 stop air. Course I can drive to Tulsa and cut costs drastically. Rooms not as encouraging. Around $40-50 a night more in Missoula with 1/2 of the properties with no rooms available. I just plugged the same dates into Orbitz and got a bunch of hotels with rooms avail and prices starting in the $60.00 range. Where were you staying in Tulsa for 10-20 a night? I thought those rooms normally charged by the hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Please let's keep on track here people. While there may be special; awards for how many different beers you can drink before they pour you out of the bar and there are obviously many questions to be discussed regarding driving vs flying to a match and so many other questions I can't begin to think of... But the thrust of this thread is: Why can't we get the dates and venues of the Nationals a year in advance? After that is settled, I would be very happy to participate in discussions regading the time/cost/hassle equation of flight vs drive. I would love to get the lowdown on good eateries. We all want to know where not to go. But until we knw where and when the Nationals are to be held, what difference does all that make? Stowe Vt. has great sking. So? The AWARE is held currently near Stowe, So? We shoot in the Summer and most ski in the Winter. What bearing does the winter season have on the match? None! And that while a bit over the top is what I am trying hard to get across here. Who cares what is the best place to eat in Missoula if we are going to be in Barry? What do we care if the best steaks in the world can be had for $1.00 in Bend if we are going to Tulsa? What does the average mean temperature in August in Arizona mean to us if we are shooting in Florida in February?? OK, Rant over for a while. Lets just get back to the where and when of the Nationals and do the travel planning after we know where and when we are going. OK??? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) just did a random search on Orbitz that is somewhat encouraging 2007 Sept 17-24 Dayton OH to Tulsa $406, Dayton OH to Missoula $527 1 stop air. Course I can drive to Tulsa and cut costs drastically. Rooms not as encouraging. Around $40-50 a night more in Missoula with 1/2 of the properties with no rooms available. I just plugged the same dates into Orbitz and got a bunch of hotels with rooms avail and prices starting in the $60.00 range. Where were you staying in Tulsa for 10-20 a night? I thought those rooms normally charged by the hour. I generally avoid Pinky's Little Bed Bug Inn so I compared Courtyards, Holiday Inn Express stuff like that to each other so yes $130 is $40 higher than $90 My question is would you stay in those $60 hotels in MT Edited November 7, 2006 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) I generally avoid Pinky's Little Bed Bug Inn so I compared Courtyards, Holiday Inn Express stuff like that to each other so yes $130 is $40 higher than $90My question is would you stay in those $60 hotels in MT I did. Two years ago when I worked the Area 1 match at Missoula, I stayed at the Val-U-Inn. Room cost was $67/night and it was a GREAT hotel located around a ton of resturants and a mall (which was a good thing because I broke my sunglasses on the way to Missoula) in Missoula and a bit closer to the range than Rubys. I will say that before going, I researched all the hotels at tripadvisor.com. Val-U-Inn had great reviews. Edited November 7, 2006 by SteveZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I generally avoid Pinky's Little Bed Bug Inn so I compared Courtyards, Holiday Inn Express stuff like that to each other so yes $130 is $40 higher than $90 My question is would you stay in those $60 hotels in MT I did. Two years ago when I worked the Area 1 match at Missoula, I stayed at the Val-U-Inn. Room cost was $67/night and it was a GREAT hotel located around a ton of resturants and a mall (which was a good thing because I broke my sunglasses on the way to Missoula) in Missoula and a bit closer to the range than Rubys. I will say that before going, I researched all the hotels at tripadvisor.com. Val-U-Inn had great reviews. Sounds good My experience is that's an exception not the rule. Probably helps to be in MT and not the East coast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Administrators, Please pull the hotle and travel discussions off this post and put them in their own thread. This thread should be entirely about the timing and locations not where to stay and whether there is a good strip club in crawling distance to the hotel. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 oh, the irony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Let's just get back on topic.. (I don't want to do the work of digging through 115 posts on a thread that won't get any resolution anyway.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 I'm good with that. How about: New Threads: Missoula MT. A great place to Shoot Tulsa, OK, A great place to Shoot Post all the Steak house, beer hall, strip club, local Wal-mart info you want there. Keep this as strictly for WHEN ARE THE NATIONALS? and WHERE ARE THE NATIONALS, with a lower voulme shout of what mix will we be shooting so we know how to break our year Thank you Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckw Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) The question is:Why don't we already know where the 2007 Nationals will be held? Why don't we know when? Why don't we have the mix, ie., Open-Production-Single Stack, Limited-Limited-10-Revolver or whatever mix is decided upon? Areas need to know to plan, Sections need to know, clubs need to know, and we as members need to know. We need to schedule vacation time. Jim The above was your opening question. My question is why don't you call or email the only guy in the world who can answer your question - Mike Voigt - instead of getting into a flap here??? As far as I know, MV is not obligated to read or post replies here. Edited November 7, 2006 by chuckw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 oh, the irony Yeah, I know, but even I sometimes want to stay on topic. BTW, Is there any real news on the dates and locations or just all the idle speculation that has so far filled 116 posts? ChuckW, I regularly talk with my Area Director and I have even been known to send off an email or two to HQ. I don't think that asking the question here and discussing the desires f the members to know when and where is a bad thing. True Mike is not required to read any of this, nor is he required to respond to it or to my emails, or to anyone else's. I think the main thrust of htis thread was and remains to see if the membership feels as I do, that we should not be waiting until 3-5 months before a Natinals to make our plans. Personally, i have to schedule my life somewhat in advance. I have a business partner that wants to schedule his vacation and we cannot both be away the same weeks. I can leave at the drop of a hat, unless he is away. So the match schedule affects not only we who shoot, but also those that work with us or for us and our families. Knowing when and where, i can plan a family vacation or not. Should I paln on taking my family to Tulsa? Or will the match be during school, in which case I need to plan my family vacation either around a different match, or not around any match. If you don't, won't or can't undestand the desire of the members to know when and where the matches are held, I am afraid I can't help you. Besides, didn't you say you were not even sure you were going to bother renewing your membership? That being the case, what difference does it make to you? As an aside: Mike Voight is a member Geroge Jones is a member Bruce Gary is a member Gary Stevens is a member Rob Boudrie is a member Charles Bond is a member I have likely missed a few, but apparently, although they largely and understandably remain silent much of the time, I think that the message is being received. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Yes. We're members of the Board. But we can't tell you things if we don't *know* them. Therein lies at least part of the solution - at present, only one person on the planet has any actual *knowledge* about where the Nats are likely to be next year, and any real influence over when those dates and locations will be announced. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckw Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) Besides, didn't you say you were not even sure you were going to bother renewing your membership? That being the case, what difference does it make to you? Wasn't me. Therein lies at least part of the solution - at present, only one person on the planet has any actual *knowledge* about where the Nats are likely to be next year, and any real influence over when those dates and locations will be announced. That's what I told him --- let's see if you get a lecture too! Edited November 7, 2006 by chuckw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) Chuck, I will always admit error. I inadvertently confused you with a different Chuck. My apologies. The rest stands. and BTW, I have written to Mike V regarding this topic. As to lecturing, all I want is to try and keep the discussion on track. I learn. If there is drift, we can split it off or just start a new thread. SO, to this point. WHERE, WHEN are the two questions for here. What hotels and the quality of the local brewery are for here after we et an answer or on a different thread. They are questions I want the answers to just as much as anyone. I want to know where to eat, I have maybe 5 days in town, I don't want to waste them on bad food, warm beer and dirty hotels rooms. Jim Edited November 7, 2006 by Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 As far as I know, MV is not obligated to read or post replies here. But it would help him stay in touch with his constituency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubback Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Well,I don't care what Jim says,here are some non-topic facts.We just had a Rolling Stones concert in Missoula with 20K plus people at the concert.They all drove and flew here without any issues.We have 1620 available motel/hotel rooms in Missoula;most nice,some crappy.If you drive like Bruce Gary,the range is 10 minutes.If you drive like your in Montana,it's 5 minutes.There are 2 breweries in town.One has a tasting room with FREE beer,the other has big glasses of inexpensive beer.We have 2 strip joints for those that are interested.One is very nice,the other is very not nice.We have more places to get a good steak here than in Tulsa.I've been the many times,I know.And jim,unlike the Peoples Republic of New Jersey,we like guns here,we let you carry them in the open everywhere and concealed most places.The airport lands BIG planes all day and is 1/2 mile from the brewery for those of you that are real thirsty.Well Jim,there's your personal invitation.C'mon out.I'll even drive you around so you don't get lost in the wide open spaces. Bubba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 (edited) Well,I don't care what Jim says,here are some non-topic facts.We just had a Rolling Stones concert in Missoula with 20K plus people at the concert.They all drove and flew here without any issues.We have 1620 available motel/hotel rooms in Missoula;most nice,some crappy.If you drive like Bruce Gary,the range is 10 minutes.If you drive like your in Montana,it's 5 minutes.There are 2 breweries in town.One has a tasting room with FREE beer,the other has big glasses of inexpensive beer.We have 2 strip joints for those that are interested.One is very nice,the other is very not nice.We have more places to get a good steak here than in Tulsa.I've been the many times,I know.And jim,unlike the Peoples Republic of New Jersey,we like guns here,we let you carry them in the open everywhere and concealed most places.The airport lands BIG planes all day and is 1/2 mile from the brewery for those of you that are real thirsty.Well Jim,there's your personal invitation.C'mon out.I'll even drive you around so you don't get lost in the wide open spaces.Bubba Edited November 8, 2006 by GeorgeInNePa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Is Montana one of those states where you can drive as fast as you can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 "Safe and prudent daytime speed limit" I believe is the wording on the signs in Montana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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