Clint U66 Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Just checking to see if a commander length slide with a bull barrel would be legal in esp division? I was under the impression that anything 4.15" or shorter could use a bull. Clint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeidaho Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Just checking to see if a commander length slide with a bull barrel would be legal in esp division? I was under the impression that anything 4.15" or shorter could use a bull. Clint From page 22 of the rulebook, concerning ESP modifications. 10. Factory installed cone style barrels on pistols with a barrel length of 4.2” or less. Ken Reed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint U66 Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 SOOOOOOOOO that means that it is legal, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeidaho Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 (edited) SOOOOOOOOO that means that it is legal, right? If your barrel meets the criteria. Then yes. Is it factory installed? Is it a cone style barrel? Is it the right length? Ken Reed Edited September 22, 2006 by freeidaho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 NOOOOOOO, not unless your Commander is less than 4.2". True Commander like the Colt made guns are 4.25". That extra .051" is enough that a bull barrel is a no-no. Yeah, it made a lot of sense to me too....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 So, if the rule book drew the line at 4.3", it would make sense? Are there any factory guns with 4.25" bull barrels? I think the rule was written when we had 3.5" bulls, and 4.25" bushing barrels, and not the plethora of factory 4" bull guns that we have today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 So, if the rule book drew the line at 4.3", it would make sense? Are there any factory guns with 4.25" bull barrels? I think the rule was written when we had 3.5" bulls, and 4.25" bushing barrels, and not the plethora of factory 4" bull guns that we have today. Kimber makes at least two models with bull barrels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted September 23, 2006 Share Posted September 23, 2006 I think Kimber's "commanders" are 4", not 4.25", right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 NOOOOOOO, not unless your Commander is less than 4.2". True Commander like the Colt made guns are 4.25". That extra .051" is enough that a bull barrel is a no-no. Yeah, it made a lot of sense to me too....... Any time you make a rule that says, "We're going to draw the line....here," you open yourself up to criticism if something is right near the line, either not quite over or slightly over it. "How you can say that an extra 5/100ths of an inch really makes a difference?" But the only solution is to set no standard at all. And that helps no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I think Kimber's "commanders" are 4", not 4.25", right? That's correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint U66 Posted July 1, 2007 Author Share Posted July 1, 2007 According to STI their commander length slide is 4.15. So a bull/cone barrel would be legal in this length even if it is a custom built gun. Is that right? Clint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Wonder Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 According to STI their commander length slide is 4.15. So a bull/cone barrel would be legal in this length even if it is a custom built gun. Is that right? Clint Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 According to STI their commander length slide is 4.15. So a bull/cone barrel would be legal in this length even if it is a custom built gun. Is that right? Clint Yes Uh, no. Factory installed means factory installed, and you're measuring the barrel not the slide. If your factory built production ESP gun meets the exact critiria set out below, then ok. You can not install a bull barrel on a similar sized pistol. That is not a legal pistol in ESP or CDP. 10. Factory installed cone style barrels on pistols with a barrel length of 4.2” or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Wonder Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 (edited) If one is building a custom 1911 pistol (such as a Caspian) to mimick a factory model, it's legal. Also, STI's commander length pistols feature bull barrels in lengths of 4.15". Edited July 2, 2007 by Singlestack Wonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 If one is building a custom 1911 pistol (such as a Caspian) to mimick a factory model, it's legal. Also, STI's commander length pistols feature bull barrels in lengths of 4.15". That's simply not what the rule book says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Wonder Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Steve, first of all, the STI commander length pistols mentioned above do come with legal, 4.15" bull barrels. In regards to building 1911's out of 3rd party components (i.e. Caspian or others), this issue has already been addressed by HQ. They are legal as they duplicate factory guns and offer no competition only advantages. Check with your local area director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardschennberg Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 A lot of IDPA's intent was to reduce the percieved cost of competitive equipment. Most guns with > 4.2" barrels come with, or are at least available, with a bushing barrel. Many guns with <= 4.2" barrels have a bull barrel as the standard configuration. Also, the only perceived advantage is that the extra weight helps tame recoil, but a 4.2" bull barrel feels about the same as a 5" bushing barrel (keep in mind we are probably debating .02 seconds difference in double-tap splits). The line had to be drawn somewhere, and not allowing bull barrels for 4.25" guns probably saved a few Commander enthusiasts from buying a fitting a bull barrel they don't really need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMoore Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) Since the STI commanders were brought up, what about the "Ranger II" would make it not legal for IDPA, 9mm for ESP in particular. They are listed as IPSC and USPSA approved, but not IDPA. Edit: Found my own answer with "search"....the recoilmaster isn't legal. A Guide rod/spring swap would make it legal. Any change in that rule since '06? Edited July 20, 2007 by RobMoore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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