dgsmith Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 This was my first Nationals I have attended. I was appalled at the distribution of prizes Saturday night. How does a GM that finishes 10 places down from the 1st place GM get a good prize when a B class or C class shooter that just beat fifty or sixty of his fellow B or C class shooters gets hardly nothing. Why does it not go in order of match winner, 1st GM, 1st M, 1st A and so forth down thru D and start over with 2nd place finishers then 3rd and so on till every one picks. Why does all the lower class shooters pay for the good prizes a subpar GM gets who finishes at the bottom. Mind you I was not that top B class. I would have picked after that 10th place GM. But at least it would be fair. We might as well eliminate the class system if this is the way we award class winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Devils Advocate... Why does a D class shooter who finished at say 50% get to pick before a master class shooter who shot 90% ? One obviously beat the other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 dgsmith It should be that HOA gets to go first and then in order of their percentage of finish against the HOA the rest of the shooters trot to the prize table.. The person who is 1st D, IMO, is not entitled to a quicker trip to the prize table than a person who finished 29th A.... Just gives you incentive to become HOA instead of 121st D...right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Over and Over and Over.......... Ivan Order of finish!!!! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgsmith Posted September 21, 2006 Author Share Posted September 21, 2006 So why do we have a class system. Should the lower class people just write a check to the sponsered pro GM. Also the top ladys picked before class winners even though they were 61st place and 73% also 2nd place women placed 100th and 67%. They both walked away with guns. So invite the lower class shooters? Just invite the top 300 shooters in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Been said a thousand times; there are only two fair ways to distribute prizes. Order of finish, regardless of class. Absolute random drawing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Three words; 'Trophy only match' Prize tables cost our sponsors, they are a pain in the butt to organise, increase the cost of matches and create bad feeling every single year. I think they should host a Nationals without the prize table next year. Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 dgsmith having been in this since the late 70's...I will tell you that it was never meant to be a prize sport..was not set up that way from the start.. If you are really serious about getting the same prizes as TGO, then you need to dedicate the same hours, energy, money and enthusiasm to this sport and to improving as he has...and as most of us have heard him say before, if you want to beat him, remember...he is a MILLION draws ahead of you.. I still have a set of recoil springs from the prize table from my 1979 Nationals...I thought it was pretty cool considering that I got beaten by over half of the people there.... Just be glad you got to go and hope that you learned some things that will help you do better when you have the chance to go again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgsmith Posted September 21, 2006 Author Share Posted September 21, 2006 How in the world is order of finish more fair than by class order? A master class shooter will always finish higher than than a C class shooter. Do you think a Master who finishes 10th out of 10 Master class shooter deserves a better prize than a C class winner who just beat 60 other C class shooters in a tight race. If you do you probebly are in this just for the money, not the good of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 We all started at the bottom!!! Any GM or M here start any different? I didn't ...M-open, M-limited, A-Production. I shot my first IPSC match in 1980 Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I love how people are always saying the "sponsored pro GM." Well folks...I'm here to set the record straight....All but MAYBE 5 shooters in the nation have day jobs. They didn't get to be a GM because so and so paid for them to do it...they did it through sweat and blood. So does that make them entitled to an earlier trip to the less-than-worthy prize table before the guy who does it occasionally as a hobby? Hell yes it does. Order of finish is more fair than by class because of exactly what it is....order of finish. The people that shot the best should earn the most....period...full stop...end of story. This is a sport...not a feel good club where everyone can win. If this is stepping on people's toes...sorry...but this is how it is and how it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 IMHO the class structure is so we can compare how we shoot to people in our same skill set. Prizes should always go by Order of finish. Random draw is only a raffle and does not reward performance. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Stop it Jake. You're going to make me cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I just want to shake the hand of the person that shot a GM or M score in thier first IPSC match, Club or other wise!!! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Three words; 'Trophy only match'Prize tables cost our sponsors, they are a pain in the butt to organise, increase the cost of matches and create bad feeling every single year. I think they should host a Nationals without the prize table next year. Just my 2 cents I do believe I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbs007 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 FWIW, back in 1995 when I attended the American Handgunner World Shootoff Championship I was still Unclassified. The way they distributed prizes was totally different from how they normally do it in our game. They setup different tables for the different divisions and the first top three for each division either got a firearm or a frame kit and the HOA got the top prize and another trip to the prize table. This might depend on how much donated prizes they got from the sponsors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Paul still does it today, He gets a lot of prizes, I gave 6 pistols for this years match. Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 How in the world is order of finish more fair than by class order? A master class shooter will always finish higher than than a C class shooter. Do you think a Master who finishes 10th out of 10 Master class shooter deserves a better prize than a C class winner who just beat 60 other C class shooters in a tight race. If you do you probebly are in this just for the money, not the good of the sport. Have you ever considered that winning your class is nothing more than a statistical accident? Anyway you distrubute prizes is fine by me, just understand that your opinion on the matter likely depends on your place in the food chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgsmith Posted September 21, 2006 Author Share Posted September 21, 2006 I guess we need two divisions. One for the A class and below who either have not the talent or money or drive to make master. We can shoot for trophy only and make our match fee around 100 bucks. Then the division of Masters and Grand Masters who can shoot for prizes and make their match fee 500 bucks. I have been in this sport since 1988 and have not been able to make it into your elite ranks. Did not have the money or the time. Now that I do have the money or the time I don't have the eyes or the body to make it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Been said a thousand times; there are only two fair ways to distribute prizes. Order of finish, regardless of class. Absolute random drawing. Naw, you missed a third one, if we're serious about this class thing: Division winner, followed by first G-D, followed by second G-D, third G-D........ Personally prize tables are not the reason I attend a match. I always think they're a cool bonus ---- and I'm happy with whatever I manage to receive...... Over the years I've gotten some cool gifts that I probably wouldn't have bought for myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 ....If you do you probebly are in this just for the money, not the good of the sport. "WTH? There's MONEY in them there hills?" If I had known this 20 years ago, I would have sold the children when they were infants (infants bring big bucks I hear) pimped my wife out, quit my day (and night) job, moved into a travel trailer and gone the "Pro shooter" path. "I could have been GREAT too, ya know" (disclaimer this is a FICTIONAL HYPOTHETICAL PERSONAL DELUSION) How much money BTW? Sounds like someone went to their first nationals with an expectation of a prize distribution that never existed in the history of the USPSA nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerwas Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I just want to shake the hand of the person that shot a GM or M score in thier first IPSC match, Club or other wise!!! Ivan Actually, I did this with my open gun..... 1 special classifier and straight to M class I went. But, I agree with you and I understand what it is you are saying... Lots of dry fire/fundamental practice will get you up the food chain and closer to the front of the prize drawing line.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 ! I like this = Have you ever considered that winning your class is nothing more than a statistical accident? Anyway you distrubute prizes is fine by me, just understand that your opinion on the matter likely depends on your place in the food chain. That is well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnpyeron3 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 As a lowly "C" Limited shooter, I don't mind how the prizes are distributed. If I finish a match as the high C Limited shooter, that's what I'm looking for. If I beat some B's or A's, even better. I know that I'm not a GM or M, but I'm willing to work at getting there. I don't care about the match fees. Hell, I'm spending $200+ to shoot Area 2 and another $200 + to shoot the FL Open. If you add that to the cost of hotels, transportation, food, etc., I'd be better off staying home. I shoot these matches to shoot and get better. I don't shoot for prizes. If I wanted a new gun or frame, I could just save the matches fees and the cost of everything else and just buy the damn thing. And besides, the GM or M that wins overall doesn't have to take the best prize. He (or she) may already have 7 Glocks, 4 Frames, 5 reloaders, etc.. He may want something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 To maintain the integrity of prize distribution at any match, I think the most important thing is to have a clear policy, communicate it ahead of time, and then stick to it. From my vantage point, it appears this was done quite well at Nationals this year. A shooter who knows the deal can decide up front and vote with his or her feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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