Problems With Dillon Xl 650

[charliez]

I've had my 650 press now for just about 3 weeks. I love it, but there are a few things I uh "dislike" about it

Before I call the design "lacking" I thought I'd ask here and see if it's just me being a bonehead first ...

1. Caliber conversion from 9mm/40S&W to 45ACP.

This requires changing the primer punch from small to large. How the heck do you folks do it? There is no room to insert a 9/16" wrench under there! Space is so tight.

I had to remove the press head (the entire assembly the shellplate is screwed on) to get access to the primer punch nut. Then of course as the assembly was lifted out, the spring that is wound around the press cylinder went schwinggggg to neverland (Brian, thanks for including the spare parts kit!), putting that spring back together was another ordeal.

Is there a simpler way to replace the primer punch? RCBS, and Hornady have very straight forward ways of changing it.

2. The casefeeder, case pivot, the thing that takes the case from the casefeeder tube and moves/slides/feeds it to the shell plate returns by spring pressure.

This mechanism's design should instead return by a positive cam action as it frequently gets stuck due to the spring pressure not sufficient to bring it back in my case (45ACP).

For the 45ACP caliber conversion for some reason it gets stuck 1/3 of the time (1 stuck once very 3 cases) and I have to manually push the case pivot to insert a new case. I have used the casefeeder caliber conversion kit that comes for the 45ACP (red case funnel and red tube stub). With my 40S&W caliber conversion, I noticed there are 2 tube stubs, presumably one for 10mm and one for 40S&W, one of which resolved the stuck problem. Only 1 tube stub came with the 45ACP caliber conversion.

3. The primer seating mechanism on the up stroke and beyond of the press is also driving me bonkers. For 9mm and 40S&W this works fine. For 45ACP, I get 1 primer for every 10 cases that is semi-seated (i.e. protruding) because I didn't apply enough pressure on the beyond up stroke of the press.

This mechanism should also have a positive cam action (with perhaps a spring buffer to avoid a compression detonation). I prefer to have it on the down stroke of the press instead of up and beyond. The up and beyond maneuver pushes the table skittering sideways, whereas the downstroke has much better leverage pushing the table down.

4. What's the point of having a primer quick change system if the primer punch isn't part of the quick change? I expected the primer punch to get lifted off as a single unit with the primer plate and tube, but instead had a "WTF" moment looking at issue #1 above.

With the 4 problems above, I'm thinking that I'll quickly just need 1 complete press for each caliber and that's becoming expensive quickly to become competitive with say multiple dedicated Lee, or Hornady presses

What am I doing bonkers?

Thanks!

Edited September 5, 2006 by charliez

[Skywalker]

1. Caliber conversion from 9mm/40S&W to 45ACP.

This requires changing the primer punch from small to large. How the heck do you folks do it? There is no room to insert a 9/16" wrench under there! Space is so tight.

Had the same problem a few weeks ago, and was wondering the same.

If I recall correctly, I had to remove the primer chute (element 3, P/N 16210 on page 52 of the user manual) to make enough room for a wrench.

Edited September 5, 2006 by Skywalker

[blkbrd]

Once you do the primer drop tube mod (see the tips section) its easy to get a wrench in there.

The press needs to be mounted to a solid bench not a table.

The case feed requires some graphite lube.

[dillon]

Easiest way to remove the primer seating punch assembly is to unbolt the primer cam #13670 from the top right of the frame, then pull the handle down. This gives you plenty of room to use a wrench to loosen the primer seating punch assembly.

Next, removal of the platform is nothing to casually do, as a couple of alignment tools are required to get the shellplate and platform back into proper alignment. Please phone us so we can mail them to you.

45ACP uses both red adapters. If the spring isn't returning it reliably, then look for one of the plastic adapters to be binding somewhere. Also, the cam on top of the case feed plunger probably needs to be readjusted, since you are going to a larger diameter case.

On the 45ACP cases with high primers, are they U.S. commercial cases? the 1050/Super 1050 is the only machine currently available that seats primers on the downstroke. Much more expensive. It sounds like your worktable needs to be beefed up. Avoid plywood for a table top. A minimum of one inch particle board works just fine.Plywood is simply too flexible.

[charliez]

The primers are CCI 300 large pistol primers. The cases are US commercial cases (Federal, Winchester).

I rectify the protruding primers by reseating them (softly, gingerly as they are loaded ammo by that time).

By "table" I meant a solid woodworking bench ... but yeah, it needs more weight on it to stop from skittering sideways

Will be sending mail for the alignment tools.

Thanks!

Edited September 5, 2006 by charliez

[Allgoodhits]

...

I rectify the protruding primers by reseating them (softly, gingerly as they are loaded ammo by that time). ...

Thanks!

Obtain a bullet puller....pull the bullets, dump the powder before re-seating those primers! I primer seater plunger is not much different from a "blunt oversized firing pin". Detonation of a loaded round without a chamber to encapsulate the round = a grenade! The brass casing = shrapnel.

I have had a primer ignite on empty case during the seating (upstroke) process on a 650. Somehow that ignition, then ignited all remaining primers in the feed tube. Thank DILLON for having the primer tube encased in a steel outer tube. It was very loud, minimal damage to loader parts which DILLON made good immediately. When I called they knew immediately exactly what parts I would need. My guess from experience on their part. Had it been a loaded round it would have been very, very ugly.

NOW, I always wear eye protection and with contrary cases when seating primers I throw them away, or neutralize the primer, decap it and start over as it will then go into a box with others for primer pocket swaging later.

Simply, it ain't worth it.

MJ

[charliez]

Eeek, good advice!

Many thanks for the warning.

[Sc0]

Are the shells hanging up right before it gets "pushed" into the shellplate? If so I would say that your shellplate might be a hair too tight. On my press I clipped a coil or so off of the shellplate ball detent spring and with proper tension on the holddown screw case feeding issues are gone. (as a bonus so is spilled powder) I actually broke a shellplate because of this issue...

As for the primer punch swap I pull the handle for more room then use an open end 9/16" wrench. I think that the punch from the factory is hard to remove initially, I install them a little tight but afterwards it's easy to swap... A more speciaized or modified tool would probly be easier to use but I haven't had a need for one. (swapped mine from .45acp to .223 the other day)

As for priming on the up stroke, so far I haven't had a problem seating them flush when everything is setup properly... Have the Dillon video?

[charliez]

The case feeding problem got fixed with a little lube on the pivoting case mover. One drop at the top surface, one drop at the bottom surface.

The primer punch got fixed with as you suggested with an open 9/16 wrench. Raise the platform, remove the primer advance cam (plastic composite on the right front side of the press body). I can see that it doesn't need to be super tight, just tight enough to hold on.

I think it might be worth for Dillon to consider fixing that design with a BNC connector type fastener for quick on/off finger mounting of the punch without dramatically changing the design of the press.

Thanks!

[mobocracy]

I think it might be worth for Dillon to consider fixing that design with a BNC connector type fastener for quick on/off finger mounting of the punch without dramatically changing the design of the press.

I think they'd be better of redesigning the priming system so that it was a single subassembly that could be swapped out, punch included, when changing sizes.

[charliez]

I'd say that would be the ideal case, but would require quite a bit of CNC/machining change, hence less likely chance of happening ... <imho>

BTW. Dillon is sending me the alignment tool (no charge! thanks guys!) to get the press head alignment fixed.

[mleeber]

I have no problem getting a 9/16 open end wrench on the primer punch. Once loose I can unscrew it by hand and then insert the other size by hand with an 8th of a turn with the wrench once it is in. I do not have to remove anything. It is a Craftsman open ended 1/2 9/16 combo wrench about 7 inches long.

[Rico567]

I"m mystified by claims that some people can't remove the primer punch with a 9/16" wrench. There's not much room to maneuver up in there, but I just grabbed a well used old combination wrench in that size, and it works fine. I really use the wrench only to make sure the punch is tight or to break it loose. I do most of the insertion and removal with my fingers.

[Nickaber]

Find a old or cheap 9/16 inch wrench and grind it down to fit up in the space and you should have no problems.

[dillon]

If you first remove the primer cam from the top right side of the frame, then pull the handle down, you'll find there is much more room to swing a wrench when exchanging the primer seating punch assemblies.

[sargenv]

I've found that my 650 does not like CCI primers in any way, shape or form. A switch to a different primer brand may make the whole thing a moot point.

Vince

Edited December 6, 2006 by sargenv

[Saltywheels]

Had a 550 for many many thousand rounds. Just got my 650 & am struggling mightily with problems. Am using the same Dillon 45ACP dies, same cases & same Win primers I used for years on the 550:

1: Cannot fully seat large Winchester primers. Dillon advised me to ensure that the return rod on the Powder measure was not overtightened as that would restrict the movement of shell plate. Done. No luck. I hate doing this, but have to put primed empty cases back in Station2 & try to gently push the primer further in. No luck. How serious are non-flush primers? Will they even feed?

2:Just dont seem to be able to bell the case mouth the right amt (?). If I over flare, the completed round wont fit the case gauge. If I flare a minimum, the case eats into the bullet.NEVER had this problem with a zillion rounds on the 550. I know--I know-operator error. But what the bleep am I doing wrong suddenly???

3: Powder check seems messy & 'splaters' powder on the shell plate as it moves up. Do I have it adjusted too deep?

Appreciate hearing back.

[dwfish]

First of all the spring is easy to put on and take off. Get some heave thread and put thru the end or in the coils of the spring and hook it on the front pin and with the thread wrapped around the main shaft gentley pull around and put on back pin. This is in the BOOK they gave you.

Second if you are changing the primer insert punch large or small STOP and get the proper tap that fits and chase the threads in the platform. REALLY makes it nice. You will be able to use your fingers to change the item.  REALLY, just go buy an old 9/16 inch open end wrench and thin (grind ) the edges and it will give you more room to use it.

[dwfish]

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2014 at 2:11 PM, Saltywheels said:

Had a 550 for many many thousand rounds. Just got my 650 & am struggling mightily with problems. Am using the same Dillon 45ACP dies, same cases & same Win primers I used for years on the 550:

1: Cannot fully seat large Winchester primers. Dillon advised me to ensure that the return rod on the Powder measure was not overtightened as that would restrict the movement of shell plate. Done. No luck. I hate doing this, but have to put primed empty cases back in Station2 & try to gently push the primer further in. No luck. How serious are non-flush primers? Will they even feed?

2:Just dont seem to be able to bell the case mouth the right amt (?). If I over flare, the completed round wont fit the case gauge. If I flare a minimum, the case eats into the bullet.NEVER had this problem with a zillion rounds on the 550. I know--I know-operator error. But what the bleep am I doing wrong suddenly???

3: Powder check seems messy & 'splaters' powder on the shell plate as it moves up. Do I have it adjusted too deep?

Appreciate hearing back.

Sounds like there is something under your Platform not allowing it to go all the way down. ARE you using the proper size of primer inserter LG/ SMALL .???  Have you changed brands of primers just to see what happens.???   High primers is one of the MOST dangerous things you can have. This can cause the cartraige to go off before the bolt is closed and a shell going off when not in battery is,,, BLINDING for you and others.  High primers in a revolver can LOCK the gun and you will not be able to get it open.   You should be checking ALL you loads before using them.   Danger Danger DANGER

[dwfish]

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2014 at 2:11 PM, Saltywheels said:

Had a 550 for many many thousand rounds. Just got my 650 & am struggling mightily with problems. Am using the same Dillon 45ACP dies, same cases & same Win primers I used for years on the 550:

1: Cannot fully seat large Winchester primers. Dillon advised me to ensure that the return rod on the Powder measure was not overtightened as that would restrict the movement of shell plate. Done. No luck. I hate doing this, but have to put primed empty cases back in Station2 & try to gently push the primer further in. No luck. How serious are non-flush primers? Will they even feed?

2:Just dont seem to be able to bell the case mouth the right amt (?). If I over flare, the completed round wont fit the case gauge. If I flare a minimum, the case eats into the bullet.NEVER had this problem with a zillion rounds on the 550. I know--I know-operator error. But what the bleep am I doing wrong suddenly???

3: Powder check seems messy & 'splaters' powder on the shell plate as it moves up. Do I have it adjusted too deep?

Appreciate hearing back.

 

Just now, dwfish said:

Sounds like there is something under your Platform not allowing it to go all the way down. ARE you using the proper size of primer inserter LG/ SMALL .???  Have you changed brands of primers just to see what happens.???   High primers is one of the MOST dangerous things you can have. This can cause the cartraige to go off before the bolt is closed and a shell going off when not in battery is,,, BLINDING for you and others.  High primers in a revolver can LOCK the gun and you will not be able to get it open.   You should be checking ALL you loads before using them.   Danger Danger DANGER

ARE there any primers stuck in the discharge port or tray under the platform.  Something is stopping the press from going all the way down. This will cause some people to over tighten the powder return rod spring. This is what you received in reply before.

Blessings

[dwfish]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2006 at 11:56 AM, sargenv said:

I've found that my 650 does not like CCI primers in any way, shape or form. A switch to a different primer brand may make the whole thing a moot point.

Vince

I use win, primers ONLY and they works great. A buddy used the loader for his 38 super and he put CCI s in and you could not even feel them seat. Was so smooth.

You could call Dillon and they will give you an alignment tool FREE.

Check the size of seater you are using and check the timeing, AND just look and see if the primer seater is aligned with the shell plate .

Blessings

 

[dwfish]

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2006 at 4:02 AM, charliez said:

I've had my 650 press now for just about 3 weeks. I love it, but there are a few things I uh "dislike" about it

Before I call the design "lacking" I thought I'd ask here and see if it's just me being a bonehead first ...

1. Caliber conversion from 9mm/40S&W to 45ACP.

This requires changing the primer punch from small to large. How the heck do you folks do it? There is no room to insert a 9/16" wrench under there! Space is so tight.

I had to remove the press head (the entire assembly the shellplate is screwed on) to get access to the primer punch nut. Then of course as the assembly was lifted out, the spring that is wound around the press cylinder went schwinggggg to neverland (Brian, thanks for including the spare parts kit!), putting that spring back together was another ordeal.

Is there a simpler way to replace the primer punch? RCBS, and Hornady have very straight forward ways of changing it.

2. The casefeeder, case pivot, the thing that takes the case from the casefeeder tube and moves/slides/feeds it to the shell plate returns by spring pressure.

This mechanism's design should instead return by a positive cam action as it frequently gets stuck due to the spring pressure not sufficient to bring it back in my case (45ACP).

For the 45ACP caliber conversion for some reason it gets stuck 1/3 of the time (1 stuck once very 3 cases) and I have to manually push the case pivot to insert a new case. I have used the casefeeder caliber conversion kit that comes for the 45ACP (red case funnel and red tube stub). With my 40S&W caliber conversion, I noticed there are 2 tube stubs, presumably one for 10mm and one for 40S&W, one of which resolved the stuck problem. Only 1 tube stub came with the 45ACP caliber conversion.

3. The primer seating mechanism on the up stroke and beyond of the press is also driving me bonkers. For 9mm and 40S&W this works fine. For 45ACP, I get 1 primer for every 10 cases that is semi-seated (i.e. protruding) because I didn't apply enough pressure on the beyond up stroke of the press.

This mechanism should also have a positive cam action (with perhaps a spring buffer to avoid a compression detonation). I prefer to have it on the down stroke of the press instead of up and beyond. The up and beyond maneuver pushes the table skittering sideways, whereas the downstroke has much better leverage pushing the table down.

4. What's the point of having a primer quick change system if the primer punch isn't part of the quick change? I expected the primer punch to get lifted off as a single unit with the primer plate and tube, but instead had a "WTF" moment looking at issue #1 above.

With the 4 problems above, I'm thinking that I'll quickly just need 1 complete press for each caliber and that's becoming expensive quickly to become competitive with say multiple dedicated Lee, or Hornady presses

What am I doing bonkers?

Thanks!

You can HAND prime your cases and take out the DEprimer. EASY to do and I buy some primed cases and it is GREAT.     Check that there are no spent or live primers under your platform as this will make things tough to prime on the up stroke.  These machines are wonderful and there are little things that we wish were different BUTT here we are. I have had spent primers build up under my press for reasons I can not explain. With the primer assy.  off you can get right in there and CLEAN the spent primer shout.

On the # 2 check for deformation on the little red liner for the case feed and the Big plastic tube adapter. Remove SAME and check for ease of movement in these and you could do a test and don't load just rune a few thru watching the operation of each item mentioned. Do you have your cam on the case feed turned to the STEEP (pistol  )to the left facing the machine and case inserter/dropper.?? Shooting in the dark but you could just for a minute fill the tube and with the handle UP just use your thumb empty the cases into your left hand. that will give you a chance to watch the transition from tube to plate with out getting tangled up. Single operation observations will tell you more than when loading in most cases.

Bless Nzzzzzzz

[dwfish]

If anyone has had this problem please holler.

If you will look at the Picture to the left I am having problems getting MY Dillon to line up with the cases. I have spent 20 hours checking and re checking. I had the local pro stop over and he just scratched his head. I have changed every part and timed the machine every time. This is happening on ALL cal. we have used.

Could you guys look at your press when loading, check station 2 powder/flaring action.  Just as the cases come into contact with the flare tool there is a miss alignment on MINE.

Would just love some feed back on if your cases tilt to the left as the tool goes into case.

I found a way to solve this problem but Dillon is focused on the alignment tool and not the problem/solution . They think it is an alignment problem and it is NOT. Their tool only adjusts Orientation of the platform and the tool head. After doing the (alignment) with their tool 20 times with all my cal.s I find that if I take out the front Tool head pin and push the thing in .019" all is good. BUT with the tool head pushed over I can not get their ALIGNMENT TOOL TO WORK.????????   I am just putting a C clamp on the toolhead and life is GOOD.

Thanks for any Ideas

Thanks for checking you machines.

PS I love Dillon and all but 1 guy there.

Bless N zzzzzz

[Sarge]

Call Dillon and get a new tool head. Yours may be off center

[mleeber]

Honestly I think you are expecting too much from the press. Most of the parts controlling movement on a 650 are plastic and none of the tolerances are so tight that everything will line up every time. Even my 1050 leaves alot to be desired in the case prep department. For those who want to debate that watch your 1050 tool head when you have a crimped primer pocket go to the swaging die, if it is set properly the tool head will cant ever so slightly. If there is an oversized case in the sizing position at the same time the cant is more pronounced which is why I run sizing dies on opposite sides of a dedicated tool head for processing 223. And the tool heads on my 650 all fit into the slot in a sloppy fashion but that may be by design so that things that need to line up are not forced out of alignment. For most pistol calibers this is not an issue as accuracy is not going to be so good that this or that a little off-center will matter. For ammo that I want to be perfect I use a single stage press.