What Do I Need To Load 223s?

[radnor]

Good morning all!

I am new to reloading. Currently 9mm and 45. I have a 550B. What I am looking for now is my shopping list for adding 223s to the mix.

I was going to get the delux quick change kit. I need dies (BRAND????). Also, case prep, what do I need here??? Case trimming equipment, again brand?

Thanks for the help.

[George]

Trimming is needed if you are looking for extreme accuracy and lotsa' firings from a batch of cases. If you only fire them maybe 2x, you can get away without trimming although I do it every firing for accurate ammo and every other firing for standard ammo.

The Gracey, or the Giraud trimmers are the only way to go because they chamfer and debur unlike the Dillon power trimmer and all the hand trimmers which is very important when seating bullets so as not to shave the jacketing on the rough case mouth almost all trimmers leave (except the Gracey and the Giraud).

The Dillon .223 size and crimp dies are the only way to go IMO. A Redding Micrometer Adjust Seating die is the way to go for seating match grade bullets to various depths without leaving a mark on the projectiles. You can start with the Dillon seating die, but you will probably end up with a Redding like a lot of us have ;-)

The Deluxe Quick Change kit is a good choice.

If you do not reload military brass with crimped in primers you won't need to do any primer pocket work.

If you buy partially processed brass, or even 100% processed brass from someone like Top Brass, you can save a lot of hassles.

[mlmiller1]

I just recently started reloading 223 myself. The first thing I tried was the super cheap route. I bought lee dies(not a bad thing) & the lee trim tool & also the chamfer tool. You chuck up a shell holder in your drill & hold the trimmer inside the brass while spinning it with the drill. It worked really well but was so slow. I used the lee chamfer tool for chamfering the brass & removing the crimp from crimped brass. Again, it worked well but took forever. Well, I got inspired & bought the dillon rapid trim. It resizes the brass & trims it all in one motion. If you intend to shoot a lot, I recommend this tool. It fits on a tool head & you just feed it brass & it takes care of it. I have a 650 & you can definitely do the job quickly! I also bought the dillon swage tool for the primer crimp removal. It works very well & although it is lots easier & somewhat faster than the lee hand tool, it still takes time. I bought the full caliber conversion kit for my press & now, I run all the brass through once--deprime with a universal deprime die, resize & trim with the dillon rapid trim, then have the lee die for opening up the neck to accept the bullet. Then I run them all through the swage tool. Next, I run them through the press again where it does the priming, powder, bullet, & crimp just pretty much like a pistol round. One thing I learned is to wait a couple of seconds(I count 1-2-3) for the large amount of powder to drop through the small neck of the 223. If not, you'll get a light charge & have powder flowing all over the press. Good luck. I've had fun but it has been more frustrating than loading pistol. I hope this helps. MLM

Edited July 31, 2006 by mlmiller1

[TBF]

Pretty much what George said ,

Except the part about trimming not being required , the last batch of LC brass I did had some VERY long cases , be sure to at least measure and see .

I just installed a Giraud carbide cutter in my Gracey .

Almost makes trimming fun , or at least less unfun .

Travis F.

[George]

Good point Travis! Do try to measure everything first ;-)

I always trim to 1.750" after re-sizing and consider under 1.760" good to go for average stuff.

[Ghost]

I reload 223 on my XL650 in addition to multiple pistol calibers. The only thing I would add to what everyone else has said is don't forget to lube your cases before sizing them. It doesn't take much, but is absolutely necessary, even with the carbide die. I use Dillon's dies and have had no problems at all. I do use a seperate tool head with just the deprime/sizing die in it and process all the brass I'm going to load at one time. Then I clean it, swap tool heads, and run it through for the finished rounds. Have fun!

[radnor]

Thank you all!

I am putting together my Christmas list now...... The trimmer was a little bit of a surprise ($$$). But, if I look at my original estimate VS. actual cash spent for equuipment.....

Looks like I will be doing 223s in '07.

Thanks again!

[radnor]

I am putting together my Christmas list now......

Well, this is my list for now. Am I missing anything???

Giraud trimmer

swage

Conv Kit .223 Remington

SS Rifle Case Gage, .223 Remington

.223 Remington Carbide 3-Die Set

RL550B Deluxe Quick Change Assembly

Case Lube

[DMS42]

Get the Dillon primer pocket swager if you are going to be using military brass. You'll also need a lube pad.

[Shawn Knight]

You'll also need a lube pad.

Or some Imperial sizing wax.

Edited August 2, 2006 by theknightoflight

[John Dunn]

Skip the lube pad, use the Imperial or a spray lube.

Under no circumstances use an RCBS small base die, this die is a practical joke played on the unsuspecting. It is only good for sticking cases in...it serves no other purpose.

[Mr. Chitlin]

Under no circumstances use an RCBS small base die, this die is a practical joke played on the unsuspecting. It is only good for sticking cases in...it serves no other purpose.

I have loaded no telling how many thousands and thousands of 223 and 308 on my 650 using RCBS SB dies, and don't ever remember sticking a case. I lube with either Lyman or Hornady spray lube and all goes well.

My only problem is the occasional Berdan primed case, but that's another thread.

[Waltermitty]

Good morning all!

I am new to reloading. Currently 9mm and 45. I have a 550B. What I am looking for now is my shopping list for adding 223s to the mix.

I was going to get the delux quick change kit. I need dies (BRAND????). Also, case prep, what do I need here??? Case trimming equipment, again brand?

Thanks for the help.

What you really need is to get out of the sun, have a cool drink, and try to control the delerium. (Jus' kidding )

I've got all the stuff and have reloaded thousands of rounds. The one thing I know for sure is that reloading 223 isn't worth the effort.

If you're at a very high level of long range competition there *might* be some motivation, but you're still not going to gain much over commercially prepared match ammo. If you're going to shoot USPSA 3-gun matches, 99% of the shooting is a waste of fine match ammo anyway.

Back when much of the commonly available ammo wouldn't make USPSA power factor in carbines (16" barrels) I did it to avoid no-score surprises, but since they lowered the power factor that reason is gone.

Reloading rifle cartridges is way more technical and time consuming than reloading pistol rounds. I'm sure you can master it, but if you've got that much free time on your hands surely you can find something better to do. Like shoot.

It's not that the components and stuff are that much more expensive (although you don't get as many rounds out of a pound of powder when the charge is 26 grains as opposed to, say, 7 grains).

The killer is the case prep, inspection, measurement, trimming, and tracking added to the messy lubing and handling. Adding insult to injury, you have to slow down on your 550 because 20-something grains of powder takes a while to drain down through a .224" case neck, as opposed to throwing 7 grains down a .451" case mouth.

I reload .45 (and back in the day) 9mm until the brass cracks or I lose it. I never measure, trim, lube, or putz around with any of it. Out of the corn cob, into the 550, back to the range.

223 ain't like that. Nor are most rifle rounds. Don't waste your money, buy a case (or three) of 223 ammo and go shoot it.

Just my 2 cents.

[George]

Walter makes a good point about knowing your reasons for reloading .223 for 3gun or else it really is waste of your time and your money (time and money are one and the same actually).

I know my reasons for reloading .223 and am happy with them so I reload all my IPSC rifle ammo. If you are just getting started in 3gun/multigun though, Waltermitty's advice is on the money.

[mike_pinto]

Good point Ken.. If you came to one of our matches you would see tons of steel cases on the ground when we got done. Waltermitty and I shoot with the likes of some of the best 3-gunners in the world, at least one or two, and I have seen him pull out the russian stuff more then once. If it takes you a few hours to load .223, that could be money in the bank in practice with the cheap stuff. I get American Eagle 55gr for 3.19/20 buying by the box. I am sure I could get it cheaper by the case too. Point is, if not shooting over 300 yards, the cheap brass stuff works fine. I usually carry a few hundred BH 75MHP's with me for long flash targets. Something else to consider. I would never doubt George's advice though, and if you do decide to load, take his word for it.

Mike

[Keninaz]

How is imperial sizing wax used/applied? Fingers, cloth, paper towels? It comes with no instructions.

Thanx.

Ken

[ArnisAndyz]

Just started loading for 223. lubing, sizing, trimming is a pain. getting the primer pockets ready is another one. I'm figuring out that I need to sort my brass by headstamp so I know what task needs to be done. Most primers go right in, but some pockets need swaging/reaming. Whats a good tool to use for this?

TIA

[George]

The lube I recommend for ALL rifle re-sizing is the Dillon lanolin based spray lube. Everything else is a PITA in comparison. I have never stuck a case with the Dillon stuff. I CANNOT say that about Imperial sizing wax and Hornady One Shot.

[Shawn Knight]

I use Imperial while watching TV. Just sit down relax and have 2 buckets or boxes. Unlubed cases in one, lubed in the other. Take an unlubed case out. touch the sizing wax so your first 2 or 3 fingertips get coated and twirl the case in your finger tips. once the case has twirled a few times, drop it in the lubed bucket. keep going til finished. best to do this after priming, that way you're not handling slippery cases while trying to prime. Throw them in the press and load away. Check out Glen Zediker's book Handloading For Competition. All about loading perfect rifle rounds for accuracy and competitive shooting.

http://www.zediker.com

Handloading for Competition

Edited August 8, 2006 by theknightoflight

[George]

I tried the Imperial route per Mr. Zediker, I now much prefer to zap a couple hundred cases with the Dillon spray in a small shoe box, shake them once and be ready to go. It takes less time to do it this way than it took me to read about doing it by hand with waxy fingers. Yeesh!, I ain't got that kinda' time to spend in return for no discernible difference on the target face.

[cking]

If your into finding your rifles potential, and seeing how small a group you can shoot. Then reload.

If a 1.5 2" group at 100 yards is OK then by the steel case stuff and save your back. For those occasional 300/400 yard shots by some blackhills reloads.

[Shawn Knight]

If your into finding your rifles potential, and seeing how small a group you can shoot. Then reload.

If a 1.5 2" group at 100 yards is OK then by the steel case stuff and save your back. For those occasional 300/400 yard shots by some blackhills reloads.

Black Hills is the way to go I have made several crazy shots with my guns(like 1 out of 50) trying to hit a popcan at 300. Very good stuff. 68gr Remanufactured blue box stuff.

[Cosby]

I have never seen or used a Giraud case trimmer. I went to their website and it looks nice. However, for a lot less money you can get the RCBS motorized case trimmer. Add the 3 way cutter and you accomplish everything in one step and it cost a lot less that the Giraud.

[n2ipsc]

The lube I recommend for ALL rifle re-sizing is the Dillon lanolin based spray lube. Everything else is a PITA in comparison. I have never stuck a case with the Dillon stuff. I CANNOT say that about Imperial sizing wax and Hornady One Shot.

+100 on that one... Only way to fly...

[George]

The RCBS trimmer is NOT equivalent to the Giraud, nor to the Gracey. It is a collet type trimmer and as such does not index the same way the Gracey and Giraud do and it will not provide the same level of precision, nor speed.

The RCBS is a generic tool and is no better than the Dillon power trimmer (it is actually a lot slower in operation) and a far, far cry from the speed and accuracy of the Gracey, or the Giraud. You really do get exactly what you pay for in this world ;-)