sturmruger Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 I am wondering if it is legal to hold a magazine in your hand after the buzzer has sounded provided you draw it from your magazine holders and hold it with your weak hand? If it is not kosher please enlighten me to the correct rule forbiding I can't seem to find any at all. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 8.2.3 Acourse of fire must never require or allow a competitor to touch or hold a handgun, loading device or ammunition after the “Standby” command and before the “Start Signal” (except for unavoidable touching with the lower arms). As long as it's not in your hand at the start signal, I can't find anything that would disallow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturmruger Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 That is kind of what I thought too. It seem like once the buzzer sounds it would be ok to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Out of curiosity why would you want to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Out of curiosity why would you want to? I'm wondering if this might be a "trick" for the latest "can you count" classifier. Blast the nearest target strong hand only and do a really quick reload into the second target...might cut .5 seconds off the reload doing it that way...and the targets so close you shouldn't miss strong hand only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 got it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Out of curiosity why would you want to? I'm wondering if this might be a "trick" for the latest "can you count" classifier. Blast the nearest target strong hand only and do a really quick reload into the second target...might cut .5 seconds off the reload doing it that way...and the targets so close you shouldn't miss strong hand only. I'll bet if you shot it each way, 5 times for average, that there wouldn't be any difference. The time you might save in reloading would be used up with the reducded recoil control shooting SHO. That and the fact your reload is different from what you normally do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturmruger Posted July 22, 2006 Author Share Posted July 22, 2006 (edited) New Walker Reload I am probably not the first person to think of this, but I was trying to come up with a way to get the magazine closer to the mouth of the magwell, but still follow the rule that everything needs to be on your belt when the buzzer goes off. Now I am not saying this saves a lot of time, but it certainly does save some for the simple fact that your arm doesn't have as far to go and the gun can stay more on target. I was able to do reloads shot to shot in about 8/10 of second where the fastest reload I have ever managed in real match was 1.35. I would only use this for classifiers or other stages where a standing reload would be required. I have only done this in dryfire so under recoil it might not work. Take a look at the videos and let me know what think. http://www.ranch.bz/lj/videos/MVI_0249.AVI http://www.ranch.bz/lj/videos/MVI_0251.AVI If you area having trouble getting the videos to work right click on the link and select "save target as" Edited July 22, 2006 by sturmruger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 I've have always thought about that, and have actually tried it in practice, just waiting for the right moment to use it. I think it would be a quicker reload especially if you have 2 positions with windows, that are close by. you could theoritcally goto to one position while grabbing another mag and putting in between your pointing finger and middle finger of your off hand, with mag pointing the direction of the targets. When done with that array, just push the mag release and insert. Pretty fast, give it a try. They used to do that quite a bit in the single stack days. Pk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturmruger Posted July 22, 2006 Author Share Posted July 22, 2006 I was pretty sure I wasn't the first to think of it. I am going to practice it and possibly use it in a classifier some day. It really is easier then it looks the key is going to be how well I can manage the recoil with that mag between my fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 You can grab the mag from the holder in less than the time it takes for the old mag to fall out, so praticing the reload until you can do this sound like a "smarter" idea to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 You can grab the mag from the holder in less than the time it takes for the old mag to fall out, so praticing the reload until you can do this sound like a "smarter" idea to me. I agree. The HHFs for this classifier were shot by folks who did *not* grab a mag while drawing the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 It would be interesting to know the opinions of Jarrett or TGO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturmruger Posted July 22, 2006 Author Share Posted July 22, 2006 I am not trying to sell anyone on this technique I was mostly just curious to know if it is legal. I am planning on trying 20 of them at the range so that I can figure out what kind of average time savings I will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 there have been a few times that i have pulled a mag during the draw. I've done a few stages where it was, draw and shoot 6 rounds strong hand, reload and shoot 6 rounds weekhand. Idk if it is any faster this way, but it felt 'right' when i did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 +1 to learning to get to the mag faster than the old one gets outa' there. That's a fundamental skill that will do you good stead in a lot of situations, not just a specific one ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman33_99 Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 there have been a few times that i have pulled a mag during the draw. I've done a few stages where it was, draw and shoot 6 rounds strong hand, reload and shoot 6 rounds weekhand. Idk if it is any faster this way, but it felt 'right' when i did it. Not a legal stage, but they do pop up at local matches from time to time from designers who don't know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 IIRC Max or one of the other big guys teaches the pre-draw-a-mag trick for mandatory strong-hand-with-a-reload stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 I am not trying to sell anyone on this technique I was mostly just curious to know if it is legal.I am planning on trying 20 of them at the range so that I can figure out what kind of average time savings I will see. Also track the point difference and do the math. You may find the gain is not so great in terms of hit factor. Besides, getting 'tricky' sometimes leads to disaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Did the same thing in the 70's ......draw the mag when you draw the pistol...then when time came for the reload...went autopilot and dropped the mag in the left hand and went to the mag holder for the reload...boy did that get some laughs....LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Did the same thing in the 70's ......draw the mag when you draw the pistol...then when time came for the reload...went autopilot and dropped the mag in the left hand and went to the mag holder for the reload...boy did that get some laughs....LOL That's just the sort of thing I'm afraid I would do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 there have been a few times that i have pulled a mag during the draw. I've done a few stages where it was, draw and shoot 6 rounds strong hand, reload and shoot 6 rounds weekhand. Idk if it is any faster this way, but it felt 'right' when i did it. Not a legal stage, but they do pop up at local matches from time to time from designers who don't know better. It was a few years back that i shot a stage like this. Im pretty sure that it wasnt a sanctioned match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Da rule... 1.1.5.3 Standard Exercises and Classifiers may specify shooting with the strong hand or weak hand unsupported. The specified hand must be used exclusively from the point stipulated for the remainder of the string or stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerjg Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Da rule...1.1.5.3 Standard Exercises and Classifiers may specify shooting with the strong hand or weak hand unsupported. The specified hand must be used exclusively from the point stipulated for the remainder of the string or stage. I guess that means that you cant do a strong hand part then switch to weak hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 (edited) Da rule... 1.1.5.3 Standard Exercises and Classifiers may specify shooting with the strong hand or weak hand unsupported. The specified hand must be used exclusively from the point stipulated for the remainder of the string or stage. I guess that means that you cant do a strong hand part then switch to weak hand? It can't be *required* in the same component string. If you wish to do it as a freestyle alternative to everyone else's approach, that's cool. Edited July 22, 2006 by ima45dv8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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