Nick Weidhaas Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 I thought some of you may find this interesting. I experienced a Kboom at a match with my factory Glock 22 barrel about a month ago (shooting limited). Case blew out where Glock bulge usually forms and sent my mag shooting out the bottom of the gun. I was loading once fired (from a Glock) federal brass. I do use a EGW undersized sizing die. Load was 180gr. Zero HP over 4.5gr. of Tight Group at 1.136oal. 172pf. Decided to try an aftermarket barrel. My factory Glock barrel would keep hits in the head at 25 yards and I figured this was as good as I could expect. Was looking for equal accuracy with more case support from the new barrel. First barrel was a Jarvis. Had difficulty keeping hits in the A zone at 30 yards. Some groups exceeded 10" . Tried three different bullet heads with same results. Accuracy was worse than my factory Glock barrel by far. Lock-up on the Jarvis was tight. I had hoped for better. Sent the barrel back to Lone Wolff and they tested it. They said they got better results with factory MagTech, but agreed the barrel may shoot different in my gun with my loads. They did give me a partial credit for the return and sent me one of their new LW barrels (unknown mfg., but no longer made by Storm Lake). While LW had the barrel for testing, a friend offered to let me try several G22 barrels he had bought, but did not like. One was a pretty new KKM barrel, a Wilson bbl., and Storm Lake bbl. I shoot all the barrels in my gun with three different hand loads. He said none of the barrels shot well for him (he shoots a G22 in production) and was sticking with the factory barrel. The Wilson bbl. shot high (a good 4" over poa) with a 5" group at 20 yards. The Storm Lake bbl shot about the same as my factory glock barrel. The KKM was a nice surprise. Supported, I put 5 shots into a golf ball sized group. Yes, I bought the barrel. It was amazing to see the different degrees of accuracy from the different barrels when installed in different guns with different loads. I shot a local match and the Area 7 with the new KKM barrel and was very happy with the accuracy. However, I got infrequent failures to feed in both matches. The bullet was not entering the chamber mouth. I buffed the KKM bbl. to ensure there were no sharp edges on the ramp and chamber mouth area. I also added some more crimp (.416) and shortened my OAL to 1.126 (180gr. Zero HP). Lastly I pulled the 15lb ISMI recoil spring and put a factory 17lb spring on my THE tungsten guide rod. No more problems and the gun feels great. (I realize changing everything at once did not let me diagnose the actual problem.) The Lone Wolf bbl. arrived and I headed to the range to test the KKM and new LW barrel with my newly modified load. I put up a target with a 3" dot. Paced it off at 18 yards to the bench. Supported, the LW barrel shot high like the Wilson and groups were in the 5" range. The KKM put three rounds, amost touching, into a nice little group. Moved the target back to 25 yards and the rounds went into a group under 3". POI is just above top of front sight, which I like. Yesterday, I got to shoot the long range 40 yard standards (99-09) and only dropped 5pts (C's). My time was slow, but I was real happy with my hits and the accuracy of my new bbl. / load combo. It was a frustrating, but interesting process. There are a tone of variables to this accuracy stuff, but you can get these Glocks to shoot. I don't think there are really any bad aftermarket barrels being made. It is a matter of finding one that will shoot in your gun with your load. Nick- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atmar Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 i have a semi drop-in barsto in my 22, accuracy wise i have no problems with it, just lots of FTF's w/ it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 I have been happy with my GLock factory barrel in the 35. I wouldn't mind a factory barrel but sounds like accuracy is iffy. Will stick with my factory barrel for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwmiket Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 I've had very good luck with KKM barrels. ( Except my post from today in the 'what I hate' forum!). Highly recommend them! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryucasta Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 KKM barrels have worked well with most of my Glocks. The only exception was on a G21 45 ACP barrel that was giving me feeding problems. I ultimately had to exchange it for a G20 10mm-40SW and went back to stock on the G21. BTW Kevin gave me awesome support and I own a plethora of his barrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I have similarly had bad luck with a Jarvis barrel. This one was in 9mm on a comp gun. It shot poorly with or without the comp installed, with any load I tried. I finally sold it off along with the comp. The factory barrel works much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 kkm makes a great glock barrel. I also to had failures to feed, until I started barrel gauging the rounds, now no problems whatsoever. kkm chambers I have found are a little tight, so you cant go by a case gauge to determine if the round will go into your gun. Accuracy is great. Not bad for a drop in barrel. Would recommend them. PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shredfest Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 (edited) mine is wilson bbl in g21. it shoots accurately. no more accurate than glock barrel though Edited March 3, 2007 by shredfest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Unless something has changed Wilson barrels are made by Storm Lake. I have had very good luck with the LWD barrels - some prototypes were sent to me for testing. At 1/2 the cost of a KKM they are a true bargin. Most barrels will take a little load development to get the best groups. OTOH I have had very good luck with the stock Glocks barrels. My 2 G35s and 2 G34s will all group under 1 1/2" at 25 yds. I do not consider this to be a very good group. I was trying out a new powder. This was shot at 25 yds through one of my G35s with a stock barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 JoeD, Love the photo. Mind if I cop the idea for articles in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 You gotta be able to shoot the group first, Duane. (still laughing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 All joking and false modesty aside, that's not going to be a problem. Maybe it's because I've been bench rest shooting handguns for, like, 15-plus years now for articles, or maybe because just a few months ago I got my first new eyeglasses prescription in 13 years (I can actually SEE the sights now, yay!) but it's actually amazing me these days how many tight - even one-hole - groups I'm turning in from the bench. (And how's that for a run-on sentence?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Duane, feel free to use anything you need. I will be glad to help. One thing I do when shooting for groups is replace the front sight on my Glocks. I use a big fat FO for competition. For groups I use a thin, .090", plain post front that I made. Shooting groups off the bench with a hand gun is a lot harder than folks think it is. What I have found is your elbow becomes the pivot point. You must allow the gun to recoil the same everytime. Don't try to hold it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Scientist Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Well, I am ok at bagging a gun so i took all humanality out of the tests with a machine rest. I have found that the best accuracy was with KKM barrels . I also noted that the accuracy of several barrel brands improves with shooting in. I asked Kevin at KKM about this and he said that the heat treating processes that most makers use are after machinning (barstow pre heattreats).This process alows for faster machine times and lowers the cost of barrels. The heat treat leaves an oxidation in the bore that is microscopic. This "film goes away with firing " creating a more acurate barrel surface. The morral of the story is not to give up on a barrel untill it is shot in. Most people say that 500 to 1000 rounds will slick up a barrel and this has held true with my own exsperiences and those of customers. Along the same lines several barrel makers have told me that they dont recomend scrubing the bore with any solvents or metal brushes. It sounded crazy to me but it goes back to the cast iron skillet thing of seasoning. I know my mom would go crazy if I used her skillet.But thats a whole nother story. Johnnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattoo Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Along the same lines several barrel makers have told me that they dont recomend scrubing the bore with any solvents or metal brushes. It sounded crazy to me but it goes back to the cast iron skillet thing of seasoning. I know my mom would go crazy if I used her skillet.But thats a whole nother story. Johnnie I'm curious do they mean during the "break in" period of 500-1000 rounds or not to use solvents/bore brushes ever? If so then what do you use.......... T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Along the same lines several barrel makers have told me that they dont recomend scrubing the bore with any solvents or metal brushes. It sounded crazy to me but it goes back to the cast iron skillet thing of seasoning. I know my mom would go crazy if I used her skillet.But thats a whole nother story. Johnnie I'm curious do they mean during the "break in" period of 500-1000 rounds or not to use solvents/bore brushes ever? If so then what do you use.......... T Shoot jacketed only and don't clean --- ever. At least that's the recommendation...... I can't remember the last time I've cleaned the barrels in the pair of G34s I use in production --- it's been at least a couple of years though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Along the same lines several barrel makers have told me that they dont recomend scrubing the bore with any solvents or metal brushes. It sounded crazy to me but it goes back to the cast iron skillet thing of seasoning. I know my mom would go crazy if I used her skillet.But thats a whole nother story. Johnnie I'm curious do they mean during the "break in" period of 500-1000 rounds or not to use solvents/bore brushes ever? If so then what do you use.......... T Shoot jacketed only and don't clean --- ever. At least that's the recommendation...... I can't remember the last time I've cleaned the barrels in the pair of G34s I use in production --- it's been at least a couple of years though..... Correct. NOTHING should ever touch the inside of that barrel other than bullets. The chanber? - sure. I clean that. But about 10K rounds later through my glock 17 & 4 team victories in GSSF along the way, my glock barrel has never, ever, been cleaned and it shoots with better accuracy than I am capable of. Seriously, do NOT f-up your barrel by cleaning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tattoo Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Ok, No barrel cleaning anymore. No can you tell my wife the toilet flushes better dirty...... T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 (edited) What is the thinking behind this? I'm not challenging; I just really don't understand how running a bronze brush down the bore with some Hoppes #9, and clean patches every 1k rounds or so, hurts anything, compared to jacketed hollow points screaming down the barrel at close to 1000fps in a cloud of hot gas. The patches come out filthy - at first - so some residue is in the barrel, clogging the lands, I'd think.... Edited March 8, 2007 by boo radley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Cleaning a bore does not hurt anything. I pull a Bore Snake through mine every 1000 or so rounds. I soak the end in Hoppes #9. I would not use one of the stainless steel brushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Thread is drifting off topic. If anyone cares, look at a barrel maker's advice: www.schuemann.com (found it true for chromoly glock steel too). It's your barrel, do what you want to it. I will not comment further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 What is the thinking behind this? I'm not challenging; I just really don't understand how running a bronze brush down the bore with some Hoppes #9, and clean patches every 1k rounds or so, hurts anything, compared to jacketed hollow points screaming down the barrel at close to 1000fps in a cloud of hot gas.The patches come out filthy - at first - so some residue is in the barrel, clogging the lands, I'd think.... http://www.schuemann.com/Content/clean0.htm "My Personal Practice has become to never clean the bore of my barrels. I do use a brass rod to scrape the deposits out of the chamber. But, I've learned to leave the bore alone and it very slowly becomes shinier and cleaner all by itself. Years ago I occasionally scrubbed the bore with a brass bore brush. But, doing so always seemed to cause the bore to revert to a dirtier look with more shooting, so I eventually stopped ever putting anything down the bore except bullets... Good luck, Wil" Like Joe, I don't do any real cleaning with patches, jags, brushes and such. Usually just a bit of Kroil oil on the ramp and break up the carbon there, and a pass or two with a bore snake to make sure a spider hasn't made a home of my barrel. Build up in the chamber itself could be an issue, but it hasn't proved to be so for me yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Hmm...interesting stuff. Thx Carlos and Flex. I did a little digging on this, and there seems to be one school of thought that says, "go ahead and use bronze bore brushes (carefully)", and then there's....Wil. I guess there aren't a lot of controlled studies out there. Anyway. Don't want to derail the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I can say that I haven't noticed any issues from not cleaing my barrel on a regular basis. I really don't know too many that do clean them much. My sights rust a little from time to time, but the barrel shoots great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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