Jake Di Vita Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 Honestly I haven't seen a fighter besides Cro Cop who could even come close to hacking it with Fedor. The closest person in the UFC would be Rich Franklin but I think even he would get obliterated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 (edited) yeah, I don't really like that. They've come a long way in that respect. There's another forum, and they talk about maybe Matt should hold onto something longer than needed to show Gracie what it's like. That old clip of him tearing up that Kung Fu guys arm in UFC II after the guy is tapping his ass off is just disgraceful. It may be the way he was raised and trained, I don't know. I just know it's shameful and wantonly destructive. Same move Hughes / St. Pierre, look how quickly Hughes releases it with NO damage. Hell, Hughes was tearing Riggs arms apart, and as soon as he tapped, Hughes let go and was holding his head off the canvas. Peaceful warrior. Shows respect, but confidence. I love his quote about "If you are undefeated, you are not fighting good enough opponents". I've never met Matt Hughes and have only seen bits and pieces in interviews, but I really like and respect what I have seen, as a person, not just as a frikkin' wolverine that goes right through even the top guys. I gotta say that while I repsect Gracie's skills, based on what little I have seen about both of them, I wold have to cheer for Hughes even if he was the underdog. And you guys are right, Gracie was fighting 3 or 4 guys, who were all tired and maybe one had a chance of going five minutes with him. I agree with you. Let him fight From Hughes to Arlovski and then we'll talk. oh well, now I've said WAY more than I have the knowledge to. (no idea how that post got all doubled... ) Edited May 27, 2006 by dirtypool40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 ALthough Gracie deserves a good amount of respect for his past accomplishments I don't think he has a very good assessment of today's current fighters. He talks of going four fights in a night. He obviously hasn't taken a look at the conditioning of a Forrest Griffin, Jeremy Horn, or Rich Franklin (plenty of others left out), these guys would go that long easily. Also when all you do is lay on your back and hold on (ala the Severn fight) it isn't very energy consuming. However todays fighters will absolutely punish you unless your activity level is way up. Their was a time when the Gracie's had a pretty good corner on the market, but I think in this case WAL MART has arrived and the mom and pop shop is gonna get closed. Jake I missed your post on Fedor and I agree 100% that guy is simply f*&^%*g scary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Royce left the UFC to go make money. He and his brother Rorion parlayed the UFC domination into a thriving business, schools, police training, etc. To some of its champs (Franklin), the UFC still pays junk money. As I recall, Franklin made less than $50k for his last title defense...and it may have been less than $40k. The number is out there in cyberspace, certainly over on the MMA.TV Underground forum someplace. Couture, Liddel, do much better, in the $200k range against each other. Rumor has it Royce is making $1 million+ for this fight. I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Good point on the dollar amounts. Rumor is that Pride pays alot higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 (edited) http://mujaji.net/ftm/?p=91 The above link has the pay scale from UFC 58. Rich Franklin is reported to have made $34,000.00. If he had to pay for the surgery he had to screw his hand back together, it didn't work out well for him. Course, he signed the long-term contract with UFC, so nobody misled him. I don't think Pride could possibly pay worse. Also, a weigh-in pic of Royce and Matt: http://www.mmaweekly.com/absoluteig/galler...ne/headline.jpg Both look in great shape. Man, I wish this was scheduled to last until it ended. Edited May 27, 2006 by Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 (edited) I don't watch too much Pride, but I've got a buddy who does, and he says that the current UFC fighters would get killed in Pride. He said Chuck Liddell couldn't hack it over there. How can that be? I like the UFC because you cannot get a stoppage by getting on the ropes. I don't like it when they stop them and move the back to the center "in the same position." There's just no way to get the exactly the same way. The cage eliminates that problem. I don't think all UFC fighters would get killed. But Chuck Liddell got stomped by Rampage pretty badly. Chuck is a great fighter, but he would not be the absolute best in Pride. Wanderlei for instance, IMHO is a good couple of notches above him. It's true what you say about the cage. It eliminates the problem of the restart. Jake, Fedor is a bad, bad man I wonder how long it will take for him to get his first defeat. I agree that it will probably be Cro Cop (or maybe Mark Hunt). I agree with what people say about Gracie (Royce and some other family members) holding onto their submissions for too long. I think that is totally unacceptable and shows little to no respect to the fighter they are dealing with. I have heard however that Royce had some reasons to do that in the first two UFCs. In his first match against Shamrock in UFC I, the ref missed Shamrock's tapout and there was a little argument as to wether Shamrock tapped or not. Royce didn't take any chances with his next two fights. I also believe he had some stuff with Gerard Gordeau (finals of UFC I). Gordeau is an infamous eye gouger and was trying to bite Royce. No harm in holding that choke a little longer with that in mind In UFC II Jason Delucia (the Kung Fu guy) was beat by Royce (before the UFC), than seeked his help and Royce trained him. When he thought he knew enough, he wanted to fight Royce again. So it seems like they had some personal stuff going on there as well. I say it's still very disrespectful to ignore the tap out and I'm glad the fighters of today are a lot more careful with eachother Edited May 27, 2006 by spook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folsoml Posted May 27, 2006 Author Share Posted May 27, 2006 (edited) http://mujaji.net/ftm/?p=91The above link has the pay scale from UFC 58. Rich Franklin is reported to have made $34,000.00. If he had to pay for the surgery he had to screw his hand back together, it didn't work out well for him. Course, he signed the long-term contract with UFC, so nobody misled him. I don't think Pride could possibly pay worse. Also, a weigh-in pic of Royce and Matt: http://www.mmaweekly.com/absoluteig/galler...ne/headline.jpg Both look in great shape. Man, I wish this was scheduled to last until it ended. That is bizzarre that GSP made more in that event than the title-defending, main-event, fighter! And David Louiseau??? I would seroiusly rethink stepping back in the octagon for THAT money after the beating he toted. Royce does not LOOK strong. I know this does not always matter, but Matt looks like he is gonna deal some pain. Edited May 27, 2006 by folsoml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilopapa45 Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 (edited) I have been dying for this day to come - The Fight of the Century. From skimming over the posts it looks like most people are pulling for Gracie. Some 10 years ago or so my neighbor rented the old UFC fights and I would occasionally watch with him. Since then I have not seen much until I got spike TV hooked up just after the season started when Matt & Rich were the coaches. Maybe because of that I am a HUGH HUGHES :-) fan, I don't know. But I am really hoping Matt will win. I am dragging my daughter to Buffalo Wild Wings tonight around 4-5 so we can get a table. It seems like all/most of the BWW's in AZ get the UFC fights so if you have a BWW in your area and are looking for someplace to watch, you might give them a try. Good food and not to spendy. And LOTS of UFC fans to watch with. http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-ufc-hughe...ports-headlines that article says that Gracie is making 1.3 million and Matt says he is getting nowhere near that. Too bad for Matt. Edited May 27, 2006 by kilopapa45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folsoml Posted May 27, 2006 Author Share Posted May 27, 2006 Since then I have not seen much until I got spike TV hooked up just after the season started when Matt & Rich were the coaches. Maybe because of that I am a HUGH HUGHES :-) fan You became a Hughes fan watching that show?? I thought he came off looking like a jerk. How many times did he say, "I can't lose this fight. Either my team wins, or I get rid of a guy I didn't like anyway." Where is the team spirit? I like Hughes as a fighter, and he seems like a polite guy in interviews, but the show--and it could have been editing (though I don't know why they'd intentional making him look jerkish)--made him look like a cad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 This just in... Hughes in 1st round by referee stoppage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilopapa45 Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 That was an excellent fight - it only took me about 10 minutes to be able to breath again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Excellent I was hoping it would turn out that way. Can't wait to see it. Speaking of Hughes as a coach; my wife hated him from what she saw on the show. I just figured he makes his living beating the crap out of people, so I didn't really expect him to have a lot of people skills. Franklin seems like a really nice guy except for when he's nearly killing other fighters It's a good time to be a UFC fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folsoml Posted May 28, 2006 Author Share Posted May 28, 2006 Holy cow! I thought it would be closer than that. Hughes made him look like an amature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Well, the whole thing was a waste of $40. Some of the undercards after the main were decent. I was hoping it would be closer but was afraid it would turn out like it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilopapa45 Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Speaking of Hughes as a coach; my wife hated him from what she saw on the show. I just figured he makes his living beating the crap out of people, so I didn't really expect him to have a lot of people skills. Thanks, I was thinking pretty much the same thing. These guys are fighters. When I am looking for a fighting champion to pull for, I'm not always looking for personality. However, I never noticed what you guys mention, but my friend mentioned the same thing. I guess I was blinded by Matt's skill and talent as a fighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Holy cow! I thought it would be closer than that. Hughes made him look like an amature. I felt really sorry for Royce. I saw it coming, but still... I guess that is what happens when you refuse to evolve along with the rest of the MMA world Kind of ironic though that Matt beat Royce with mainly BJJ-like moves. His GNP win reminded me a lot of Royce's first win over Pat Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 It looks like the "house that Royce built" has a new owner and has been remodeled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 After last nights performance I hope that Gracie starts fighting guys his own size. I honestly can't say that the outcome is a suprise. I am more suprised that Hughes didn't do more damage to Gracie than he did. As I said before this isn't your fathers MMA anymore. These guys are so well rounded that any fighter who has a weakness is going to get stomped pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folsoml Posted May 28, 2006 Author Share Posted May 28, 2006 Deigo Sanchez kind of showed that he can't count on just taking people down and pounding them. He couldn't get that guy down and, the few times he did, he could not keep him down. That 2 1/2 minute piggy-back ride at the end of the match was the weirdest thing I'd even seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Matt was getting booed alot prior to the fight, I guess there are some old diehard fans of Gracie. Matt wil get whats comin to him when he meets St. Pierre...I hope. Diego's days are comin too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folsoml Posted May 28, 2006 Author Share Posted May 28, 2006 Matt was getting booed alot prior to the fight, I guess there are some old diehard fans of Gracie. Matt wil get whats comin to him when he meets St. Pierre...I hope. Nobody wants to see their idols fall. GSP will be tough. That one will be interesting. Their 1st matchup ended kind of flukish. GSP will be watching for the armbars this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
021411 Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Luckily I didn't have to pay for UFC 60. I stopped by my local watering hole. It was good overall. I wish Royce would of kicked Hughes butt. I hate cocky individuals. +1 for Mike Swick. He's from Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Matt wil get whats comin to him when he meets St. Pierre...I hope. I don't understand that at all. St. Pierre seems like a nice enough guy outside the ring, but Hughes really seems like a humble, confident, hard worker. Look up cocky before you use it to describe that guy. The little bit I saw of him on the show he looked like a hardass coach, and wouldn't ape for the cameras. He also clearly did not like Rashid's showboating, which I don't respect either. I lost some respect for Fisher last night for his antics. Remember; before you hold some reality TV appearence against someone know that they can edit those hours of garbage into damned near any message they want. They've got Tito looking like a choir boy on TUF 3. anyone buy that? So, anyway, has Hughes got "something coming to him" because he beat Gracie after all the hype? That was a PT Barnum fight Dana White cooked up. When the line never got closer than 6-1 and all the "expert" celebs and beautiful people in the audience picked Gracie it really got silly after a while. They paid Gracie $1.3 mil to raise the visibility of the sport, and pumped him up to be this "be all end all". They gave him a custom made weight class, a short fight, and more promotion than Holmes / Cooney. The info I could find outside of UFC propoganda said Gracie quit fighting UFC's after he "tied" Shamrock and had to be helped from the ring and hospitalized. Stopped fighting for five years, and has fought about once a year, with like a 2-1-2 record since then. Basically left the UFC when the rules and field didn't suit his agenda. OK, fine he didn't like how things evolved away from his specialty and left on top. Fair enough. But then after a 10 year sabatical, he collects the biggest UFC payday yet? Hell, word has it that Franklin took home something like $35k for his last TITLE DEFENSE. They paid Hughes less than half what Gracie stepped in to collect, and he really had nothing to win. UFC and old timey fans had built Gracie up and had a ready made excuse when he got beat. If he hits a homerun out of nowhere "SEE WE TOLD YOU!!!" but when it goes the way it did, Hughes "has something coming to him" like he picked a fight with a geriatric. Yes, I want to see good fights, tests for Hughes as he continues to improve. Another with St. Peirre and BJ Penn. Hughes is the guy who was talking on the show about how he had been beat, hell everybody get's beat. If you are undefeated you aren't fighting the right caliber opponents. And there was some pre-fight quote about "Yes, he's a tough opponent, I'm a world champion, everyone I fight is going to be a tough opponent." (I'm paraphrasing badly here, but that was the message.) Not sure where I am going with this so I will shut up now, my four months of being a fan is getting out of control. I'm going back to watching WWF and Lucha Libre on Telemundo. Maybe Shamrock will come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
021411 Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Ahem.. It's WWE now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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