The Most Unfair Target In Ipsc

[Nik Habicht]

I think that clubs putting on Level II and higher matches should *strongly* consider the use of pressure pad activators, other spring-loaded trip devices, and electronic devices as the only means of prop activation.

Eric,

how do you feel about door or port activated movers? The variable there is probably how aggressively the thing gets opened.....

Several items Nolan,

The activator stick should be marked with a top/bottom mark so that it always get set the same, It should also have a location mark so that the stick is in the same place each time.

Sticks suck. The metal bars with a hinge in the middle work much better and are more consistant.

When Jim says stick, he actually means a hinged piece of 2x2 or 2x4, depending on the local club. We color code the ends, and put corresponding paint marks where the two ends need to touch....

[Flexmoney]

EW,

I eye-ball that stuff pretty close when I go places. What I see as a (much) bigger issue is poorly maintained steel. Poppers shoot loose, twist, sink in the mud/dirt, etc.

[blackdragon]

Flex,

One more excuse to have a stopwatch in your bag!

Ivan

[Jim Norman]

Nik,

Thanks for the clarification. I was about to add that we hinge our sticks.

As to doors, ports, sliding port covers, and barge stickes, what we do in many cases is use a drop weight,the movement of the door, etc, meerly drops a 5 pound weight and it is the weight that activates the prop. You can open the door fast or slow, but once you move it 2 inches, the prop is going to activate, move it fast or slow, it doesn't matter.

We also on occasion use a no shoot actived pooper toclose a port forcing the shooter to use alternate positions to engage a target. you have a window, tight shots around a NS steel, hit the steel and the windo closes, FAST! you have no choice but to use two alternate ports to shoot the remaining targets.

Not a circus, a test or accuracy

Jim

[EricW]

I think that clubs putting on Level II and higher matches should *strongly* consider the use of pressure pad activators, other spring-loaded trip devices, and electronic devices as the only means of prop activation.

Eric,

how do you feel about door or port activated movers? The variable there is probably how aggressively the thing gets opened.....

I don't know to be honest. I'm just kind of coming up with this stuff as I see it in matches and build props.

My feel is that *how* I interact with an activating device should not have a substantial impact on the delay time in activating the prop it's "connected" to. If I can influence the stage by creeping open a door versus slamming open a door, my gut instinct is "that's a bad activator."

What I feel a "good" activator is one where the door opens XX degrees, then a spring-loaded cam releases and activates the prop. A "good" activator gives the same force output in the same time interval, regardless of how it is triggered. Once again, I would go back to the R&R pad activator as the model for how this should work. I actually think it wouldn't be too hard to take the same cam/spring principle and create actuators that could easily be applied to doors, crossarms, and the like. They might cost $75 to $100 ea. Personally, I think the solution (the pressure pad) has already been invented and I would be inclined to simply put one in the doorway and require competitors to step on it on their way through.

These are just ideas, and I know that prop designers and stage designers are out there in internet-land screaming profanities at me, because I'm basically suggesting that we make things cost more and more complex. But, in the end, I think the sport will be better off for it.

I'm painting my swinger right now. Once that's done, I'll post pictures of how *I* think such targets should work, at least Revision A of how I think things ought to be. Ideally, I'd like to see electronic activation, but that will be prohibitively expensive even for a nationals match.

[Ron Ankeny]

EricW:

I agree about the pressure pad activators and that's why I made 10 of those puppies and sold them for the cost of materials to neighboring clubs. I think I have 3 left. FWIW, the springs are the most expensive item and they really aren't that bad.

[EricW]

Ron,

Where did you get your springs? I bought mine at the farm store for $3 ea, but they're not quite what I want.

[Jman]

The little popper standing directly in front of a no shoot. Gets to my head instantly.

[AlamoShooter]

That is SO cheap! Targets are what, .40 each?. They could even put up a slightly less used target for cryin’ out loud. I could make a good hate rant out of this topic.

David C

Cheep? we shot club shoots for years on Steel challenge stages with "No paint" = Thats Cheep!

Edited July 13, 2006 by AlamoShooter

[Harmon]

no paint, that is getting silly

Harmon

[Liota]

Two shoot targets at 1000 feet and gaining fast.

Three years ago at the TX State Limited, a dirt devil launched two targets on my stage. Last time we saw them, they were headed for Abilene.

Liota

[jasmap]

Two shoot targets at 1000 feet and gaining fast.

Three years ago at the TX State Limited, a dirt devil launched two targets on my stage. Last time we saw them, they were headed for Abilene.

Liota

I will go on record and say that dust devils are an unfair activator.

[Flexmoney]

Mother Nature must chew bubble gum too.

[Jim Norman]

OK, what is "fair" and what is not?

A couple years ago there was an array at a 3-gun match that required you to shoot at 5 poppers and a plate, all in line in front of a single no-shoot. the front popper was at about 75 yards.

Did I mention that you had to lay your rifle on its side to shoot between the 1-1/2" space between slats in a pallet?

ANd this was only one of several arrays on this stage, ending with a series of flash targets at over 200 yards that you had to shoot while squatting on a small piece of 2 x 4.

Jim