Why Is Major More Of An Advantage In Pistol Than Rifle?

[ArnisAndyz]

I've been doing some homework at it seems the general opinion is that in IPSC handgun, shooting Major is an advantage because of the scoring, but why do most shooters use an AR variety in 223 minor for 3-gun? Why not shoot a 308 downloaded to minimum power floor for the same scoring advantage?

[dcloudy777]

There are several reasons, IMHO:

Major/minor capacity advantage in rifles is usually more disparate than in pistols.

Rifles usually shoot alot more steel, such as flash targets, where there is no major/minor

Rifles are much more capable of getting "A" zone hits, which also negates major/minor

Those are just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many others. Part of the problem is self-perpetuating... shooting minor isn't a disadvantage at all if EVERYONE else is shooting minor too.

DanO

Edited March 14, 2006 by dcloudy777

[Loves2Shoot]

$$$ .223 is much cheaper.

The difference in recoil between a .223 and a .308 = .22 and a .45 in pistols IMO.

[kellyn]

Shooting major is also MUCH more expensive.

It is also harder to obtain high cap magazines for Major caliber rifles whereas DPMS 45 rd mags and Beta Mags are easily obtainable for ARs. This is not to say that you NEED a 40 plus round mag to compete but it can be nice.

If we shot paper targets on the long range stages, major might be a bit more popular.

[TommiF]

In paper targets A-zone is easy to obtain with rifle and minor recoil is much easier to handle than major. Also when steel/flashtargets are used with same points in minor and major makes major handicapped.

I'm gonna shoot minor until A-zone is reduced by half

Tommi

[Dan Sierpina]

With the accuracy capabilities of a decent AR, a half size A zone will only serve to handicap the .308 shooters even more.

[ArnisAndyz]

Thanks for the info.

I used to shoot 308 at my club and they rewarded me with major scoring and I did pretty good at the local level, but the last couple matches they tried out a new scoring system that pretty much ignores major (both rifle and pistol) so I just got an AR15. The gun is faster, feels like a 22 but the shear joy of shooting the 308 will keep me coming back occasionally to HeMan.

[chp5]

Bear1142 shot a .308 at our last local 3G match. It looked like he was shooting a .223 - flat as a pancake.

[jm951]

Since almost no matches in my area are 30cal neutral, I'm going with an AR platform. While it's way cool and there's no missing a 30cal hit on steel, unless the match is somehow unbiased on rifle pf, I can't see any reason to shoot anything other than 223. I wish there were some system for it, but the HeMan/HeavyMetal thing generally isn't done over here.

[Dan Sierpina]

Bear1142 shot a .308 at our last local 3G match. It looked like he was shooting a .223 - flat as a pancake.

What was he using for a .308? How is it set up? Muzzle brake, etc? My only .308 is set up for Highpower.

[Patrick Sweeney]

The reason for the difference is simple, if you think about just what it is we're doing.

Consider a target engagement as a speed of shooting/recoil recovery vs. points gained equation. Shooting a handgun, you gain more points for a small effective increase in recoil. You can't shoot the Minor handgun fast enough to overcome the points the Major gains.

In rifle, the points gained for Major are insufficient to overcome the recoil recovery time. If we wanted to make Major competitive, we'd have to increase the Major "boost" in points gained.

Competitively, we could. We can assign any points we wish to Major and Minor. (Theoretically, not as a practical matter and still shoot something called "IPSC.") As a practical, defensive, matter, we can argue endlessly about just what the relative effectiveness is between Major and Minor, and what points we should assign them.

Simple answer: That's the way things are under the current setup. If you enjoy Major, shoot it. But do not operate under any delusions that you're competitive doing so.

[Mig]

Bear1142 shot a .308 at our last local 3G match. It looked like he was shooting a .223 - flat as a pancake.

What was he using for a .308? How is it set up? Muzzle brake, etc? My only .308 is set up for Highpower.

DPMS .308 with the barrel cut back to 18" and TTi comp (Y-brake style). It also helps with his 200+lbs behind the rifle and his squared shooting positions.

[Bear1142]

Mig is correct. I used a DPMS 308 with the barrel cut down to 18" and re-contoured to my specs with a PRI free-float tube. I used a TTI (tti-intl.com) eliminator compensator and standard iron sights. I'll try to get some good pictures tonight and post them tomorrow.

Erik

[ArnisAndyz]

The reason for the difference is simple, if you think about just what it is we're doing.

Consider a target engagement as a speed of shooting/recoil recovery vs. points gained equation. Shooting a handgun, you gain more points for a small effective increase in recoil. You can't shoot the Minor handgun fast enough to overcome the points the Major gains.

In rifle, the points gained for Major are insufficient to overcome the recoil recovery time. If we wanted to make Major competitive, we'd have to increase the Major "boost" in points gained.

Competitively, we could. We can assign any points we wish to Major and Minor. (Theoretically, not as a practical matter and still shoot something called "IPSC.") As a practical, defensive, matter, we can argue endlessly about just what the relative effectiveness is between Major and Minor, and what points we should assign them.

Simple answer: That's the way things are under the current setup. If you enjoy Major, shoot it. But do not operate under any delusions that you're competitive doing so.

Great explanation, Sounds like its kind of like racing a big block Chevy V8 against a 600cc motorcycle on a really tight course...you never get the chance to use all that horsepower to any advantage. My times were competitive at MY LOCAL club with my 308 against the 223s but only when they gave me major scoring. At one club they run an 8-points on system and that really favored the 308...2 "C" hits were all I needed which allowed me to speed up without penalty, the minor shooters needed at least one "A" and a "C". I remember on one stage when I was shooting HeMan with open sights I actually got the best time of the day for that stage (including open, tactical, limited shooters). The stage included 100 yard steels that nobody was really used to shooting. On a bigger scale State or Regional event I'd get my ass handed to me no matter what I shot!

[richardschennberg]

IMO you hit the A zone more often with a rifle because:

- with a scope, every sight picture is perfect;

- with open sights, a sight picture that looks good enough to hit the target will usually get you the A zone;

- a flinch with a rifle usually has much less effect because of the longer and heavier barrel and a more stable shooting position.