Jeff Gonzales Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Folks, This was a question from someone who frequents the board, but due to his job cannot participate in discussions while at work, bummer Anyways, if anyone can help answer this question or shed some light, please post here or you can email him directly at douglass9@hotmail.com Thanks, Hi Jeff! My job limits my ability to register for forums and thus I am unable to post to Brian's Glock forum, though maybe you have an answer to my question: Can the 9x19 be loaded to the new, lower, 165 Power Factor? I currently use my Mod. 19 in IPSC limited (since its the only suitable gun I have besides an STI Edge .45) and am considering buying another Glock. Although a .40 or .45 Glock would make Major easily, I am interested in shooting a 9mm Glock in Major/ unlimited. I am not interested in buying a .40 or .45 Glock. I have been reading about Glock conversion barrels in 9x21 - however, it occures to me that since the power factor has been reduced to 165, the 9 x19 could now be safely loaded to the lower major safely. I am not wreckless and have no desire to blow up an expensive gun (not to mention my hands). On the other hand, I know the SAAMI specs for the 9x19 were designed to shoot safely even in antique 9mm like the old lugers, P-38s, Astras, as well as all the ancient and lower quality 9mms still out there. The Glock seems to safely handle 9mm NATO (which is not loaded to the same specs as the 9x19 Parabelum) without a problem - even without a fully supported chamber. I currently carry the 19 loaded with Cor Bon hollow points that claim (on the box) 1350 FPS and they chronoed at 1330 FPS out of my Mod 19 - these would seem to be close to major if they were shot out of a 34, 17, or a 17L (major looks to be about 1340 FPS for the 9mm). My question - for you or the forum as you decide - is: can the 9x19 be loaded to make major out of a 34, 17, or 17L? I am sure there are lots of guys who would answer "Buy a 1911" (have one) or "buy a 40" (I could, but that is not my question). Besides extra case length and resulting bullet seating support, why go to all the extra hassle of buying some 9x21 barrel and then trying to source the overpriced brass? (NOTE the OAL of the 9x19 and the 9x21 is exactly the SAME - either round will fit in any gun designed for the 9mm). It seems 9x21 was just created (in the US anyway) to get around the USPSA rule against loading the 9mm to the old Major 175 power factor. Now that that's over, why bother with the 9x21?? Post this to the forum if you want, I will look for a response there. Thanks for contributing to an excellent website!! Douglas Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Gonzales Posted September 19, 2001 Author Share Posted September 19, 2001 Folks, This was a question from someone who frequents the board, but due to his job cannot participate in discussions while at work, bummer Anyways, if anyone can help answer this question or shed some light, please post here or you can email him directly at douglass9@hotmail.com Thanks, Hi Jeff! My job limits my ability to register for forums and thus I am unable to post to Brian's Glock forum, though maybe you have an answer to my question: Can the 9x19 be loaded to the new, lower, 165 Power Factor? I currently use my Mod. 19 in IPSC limited (since its the only suitable gun I have besides an STI Edge .45) and am considering buying another Glock. Although a .40 or .45 Glock would make Major easily, I am interested in shooting a 9mm Glock in Major/ unlimited. I am not interested in buying a .40 or .45 Glock. I have been reading about Glock conversion barrels in 9x21 - however, it occures to me that since the power factor has been reduced to 165, the 9 x19 could now be safely loaded to the lower major safely. I am not wreckless and have no desire to blow up an expensive gun (not to mention my hands). On the other hand, I know the SAAMI specs for the 9x19 were designed to shoot safely even in antique 9mm like the old lugers, P-38s, Astras, as well as all the ancient and lower quality 9mms still out there. The Glock seems to safely handle 9mm NATO (which is not loaded to the same specs as the 9x19 Parabelum) without a problem - even without a fully supported chamber. I currently carry the 19 loaded with Cor Bon hollow points that claim (on the box) 1350 FPS and they chronoed at 1330 FPS out of my Mod 19 - these would seem to be close to major if they were shot out of a 34, 17, or a 17L (major looks to be about 1340 FPS for the 9mm). My question - for you or the forum as you decide - is: can the 9x19 be loaded to make major out of a 34, 17, or 17L? I am sure there are lots of guys who would answer "Buy a 1911" (have one) or "buy a 40" (I could, but that is not my question). Besides extra case length and resulting bullet seating support, why go to all the extra hassle of buying some 9x21 barrel and then trying to source the overpriced brass? (NOTE the OAL of the 9x19 and the 9x21 is exactly the SAME - either round will fit in any gun designed for the 9mm). It seems 9x21 was just created (in the US anyway) to get around the USPSA rule against loading the 9mm to the old Major 175 power factor. Now that that's over, why bother with the 9x21?? Post this to the forum if you want, I will look for a response there. Thanks for contributing to an excellent website!! Douglas Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 USPSA policy states that 9mm may not be loaded to major power factor. I believe they are working on the "specs" to get it approved, but for now, it's still a big no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 USPSA policy states that 9mm may not be loaded to major power factor. I believe they are working on the "specs" to get it approved, but for now, it's still a big no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Kath, I was unable to find where that policy is located. Could you tell me where to look? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 Kath, I was unable to find where that policy is located. Could you tell me where to look? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 A guy I shot with last month was shooting 9 Major using 135 grain bullets out of a SV. He says as long as the OAL is 1.250 or longer it is OK. That is what the old rules said and I don't think it has been changed, just overlooked.Anyone have any more info on this? Bill H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H Posted September 19, 2001 Share Posted September 19, 2001 A guy I shot with last month was shooting 9 Major using 135 grain bullets out of a SV. He says as long as the OAL is 1.250 or longer it is OK. That is what the old rules said and I don't think it has been changed, just overlooked.Anyone have any more info on this? Bill H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 John, the caliber mininum is posted in the section that describes the various Classes. .40 is the minimum for major in Limited and Limited 10. Don't recall what it said for Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 John, the caliber mininum is posted in the section that describes the various Classes. .40 is the minimum for major in Limited and Limited 10. Don't recall what it said for Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Joe, Thats what I found. The original post was regarding "unlimited" which I interpretated to mean "open" and I found no rule regarding minimum caliber in open. I thought it might be somewhere else is why I asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Joe, Thats what I found. The original post was regarding "unlimited" which I interpretated to mean "open" and I found no rule regarding minimum caliber in open. I thought it might be somewhere else is why I asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 It is not legal to score 9/19 major in open. 9/21 yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 It is not legal to score 9/19 major in open. 9/21 yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 It was a Board of Director's resolution penned July 1, 1990 which still stands good today. You can view the minutes of this meeting on the USPSA Members web page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 It was a Board of Director's resolution penned July 1, 1990 which still stands good today. You can view the minutes of this meeting on the USPSA Members web page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Oh Brother........... I got a REAL problem with rules that ain't even in the book. USPSA could have at least referenced the resolution in the rule book....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Oh Brother........... I got a REAL problem with rules that ain't even in the book. USPSA could have at least referenced the resolution in the rule book....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 But it's not an IPSC rule, and that's an IPSC rulebook, capiche :-) And besides, it's been in effect long enough and is SO well known that it's rarely an issue. The guy loading to 1.250 misread the resolution, that portion refers to .38 super, not 9x19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 But it's not an IPSC rule, and that's an IPSC rulebook, capiche :-) And besides, it's been in effect long enough and is SO well known that it's rarely an issue. The guy loading to 1.250 misread the resolution, that portion refers to .38 super, not 9x19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Wait a minute now...... My rule book says "USPSA Rule Book" on the cover. "And besides, it's been in effect long enough and is SO well known that it's rarely an issue." How are new members supposed to know? Can't be that well known or we would not be having this conversation. There are 5 different people on this thread alone that did not know........ I have no desire to load 9x19 to major, I just don't like rules that everyone knows about and are not in the rule book. How in the world could the "resolution" be enforced? What if the guy in the orignal post had built his pistol without asking and just depended on what the USPSA rule book said? I'm not into "what ifs" but thats what happens when there are rules that everyone knows about but are not in the rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 20, 2001 Share Posted September 20, 2001 Wait a minute now...... My rule book says "USPSA Rule Book" on the cover. "And besides, it's been in effect long enough and is SO well known that it's rarely an issue." How are new members supposed to know? Can't be that well known or we would not be having this conversation. There are 5 different people on this thread alone that did not know........ I have no desire to load 9x19 to major, I just don't like rules that everyone knows about and are not in the rule book. How in the world could the "resolution" be enforced? What if the guy in the orignal post had built his pistol without asking and just depended on what the USPSA rule book said? I'm not into "what ifs" but thats what happens when there are rules that everyone knows about but are not in the rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 24, 2001 Share Posted September 24, 2001 Hmmmm..... Thread kinda died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted September 24, 2001 Share Posted September 24, 2001 Hmmmm..... Thread kinda died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 24, 2001 Share Posted September 24, 2001 Well geez, what am I supposed to say? I didn't write the rulebook... tell somebody that can fix it :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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