Moon Clips Don't Work

[Walt S]

I shoot a S&W model 66 that I recently had set up for moon clips. Thought I'd get faster by using them over speed loaders. Going back to "firm speed loaders".

Seems the thickness of the moon clips isn't as sturdy as those for the larger4 calibers. That makes them weak, flimsy. They twist when the 38 special cartrige is in the moon clip, thus causing the brass to be out of line with the cylinder ports.

I have practiced with fast loading at home but the bullets don't always line up. It is great/fast when they do. During my last two competions I've had to toss a total of five fully loaded moon clips on the groud after NOT being able to get the bullts to stay in a cemetrical circle and then drop into the cylinder.

Sooooo, I will now use the moon clips when told to "load and make ready" and when I reload I will go back to the speed loaders. They hold the bullets steady and aligned so they drop into the cylinder.

I hope others haven't had this problem, but I don't know of anyone using a 38/357 in a model 66.

[Randy Lee]

I shoot a S&W model 66 that I recently had set up for moon clips. Thought I'd get faster by using them over speed loaders. Going back to "firm speed loaders".

Seems the thickness of the moon clips isn't as sturdy as those for the larger4 calibers. That makes them weak, flimsy. They twist when the 38 special cartrige is in the moon clip, thus causing the brass to be out of line with the cylinder ports.

I have practiced with fast loading at home but the bullets don't always line up. It is great/fast when they do. During my last two competions I've had to toss a total of five fully loaded moon clips on the groud after NOT being able to get the bullts to stay in a cemetrical circle and then drop into the cylinder.

Sooooo, I will now use the moon clips when told to "load and make ready" and when I reload I will go back to the speed loaders. They hold the bullets steady and aligned so they drop into the cylinder.

I hope others haven't had this problem, but I don't know of anyone using a 38/357 in a model 66.

Hi Walt,

I haven't "clipped a K-frame, but you are right- the clips can be flimsy due to there not being enough metal between the cases. I'm assuming you are using round nose bullets and that there is some chamfer work done to the charge holes -after the moonclip conversion was performed.

How stable the cases are in the moonclip can also be related to the brand of brass you are using. For some moonclips, like Hearthco clips, they seem to work best with R-P or Federal brass. They should be relatively wobble free(within reason) but the cases should spin freely inside the cutout of the clip. If the clearance cut in the case head is too large, they can pop out of the clip enough to cause problems.

Contact Dave Hearth if you haven't done so already. He knows more about clip design than I ever will.

~Randy

[AlamoShooter]

Walt I have close to the same problem with a 627,... and it is all me = I grip the moon and rounds too tight like an older speed loader.

[michaels]

Walt, try HearthCo moonclips, call them up and beg them to send you two of them. Then when you've convinced yourself that these are the way to go, sell the speedloaders and by more HearthCo moonclips. It's just one of those little things that make a really big difference in how you do your reloads, floopy moons just don't make it...I have some for a 6 shot S&W 38 and they are so much better than X brand moons that you'll never go back...

michaels

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

The problem with my K Comp when I had it was all brass related. Sort through your brass and find all the RP stuff and try it out. Winchester, S&W, SuperVel (Yeah I know, I have some old brass) All were too thick. federal was border line.

Hearthco clips will not help you at all without the proper brass as they are brass sensitive too. If you have the right Brass, they are great.

If worse comes to worse, buy new RP and test it.

Regards,

[Walt S]

Thanks for the suggestions. I was not using HearthCo moon clips. I did however have some prior advise about which brass to use. I was using R-P, but after the problems I have tried them all. An interesting comment on how you hold the clip when loading it. I'll pay more attention to that item.

I also realized that I'm loading used brass (shot several times). This is probably the least of my worries, but I think I'll try some new brass.

Again, my biggest problem is the wobbly cartrige or two in the clip that does not line up with the cylinder. And yes, I did have the cylinder chamfered and I am using Berry's 58 grain RN copper bullets.

p.s. I've been shooting for a year now. Tried just about every load, had the gun tuned, bought the right equipment (?), etc. Hope I can settel down and find something I can stay with for 2006. Would like to become a better shooter, but must have a stabel environment for a fixed period of time.

THANK AGAIN guys.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Thanks for the suggestions. I was not using HearthCo moon clips. I did however have some prior advise about which brass to use. I was using R-P, but after the problems I have tried them all. An interesting comment on how you hold the clip when loading it. I'll pay more attention to that item.

Also pay attention to the cylinder position. With loose clips, the more vertical the better so gravity will then be your friend.

I also realized that I'm loading used brass (shot several times). This is probably the least of my worries, but I think I'll try some new brass.

Most of my brass is from the 80's when I shot PPC. As much as I hate to admit it, I also use the CARMONEY philosophy of brass use, That is use it until it really splits.

[D.carden]

Walt,

Are you feeding the moon into the cylinder or are you dropping them?

You need to let them "fall" in.

Once you let-go they tend to straighten-out some and find there way in.

It's important to have the gun as vertical as possible when doing this.

I remember when i first started with a 686 and speed loaders. I wasn't necessary to have the gun perfectly vertical because you could charge the cylinders at an angle an still get them in. You actualy fed'm into place.

Not so with the moons. Get over the top of the gun and drop them in. With some practice you'll be toss'n them in.

Good Luck. Keep us posted

Dan...

Edited February 2, 2006 by D.carden

[Walt S]

Walt,

Are you feeding the moon into the cylinder or are you dropping them?

You need to let them "fall" in.

Once you let-go they tend to straighten-out some and find there way in.

It's important to have the gun as vertical as possible when doing this.

I remember when i first started with a 686 and speed loaders. I wasn't necessary to have the gun perfectly vertical because you could charge the cylinders at an angle an still get them in. You actualy fed'm into place.

Not so with the moons. Get over the top of the gun and drop them in. With some practice you'll be toss'n them in.

Good Luck. Keep us posted

Dan...

DAN, I have been feeding the shells in at a small angle. One or two of the bullets stick out at 30 degrees. I WILL TRY THIS WEEK-END during Speed Steel to bend over the cylinder, pointing the brass toward the ground and the cylinder, giving it the gravity to point straight down into the cylinder. If this doesn't straighten the lose brass so they all point in the same direction, I'll ......................... ????

Thanks for the suggestion Dan.

[R112mercer]

Walt;

Adding to Dan's advice: I have to let go of the moon before it contacts the cylinder. I kind of "throw" the moon at the cylinder. I you try to muscle the clip in there like with a speed loader the rounds won't want to go in, they'll get forced up against the cylinder face or the walls between cylinders. It's takes a little faith in your ability to guide the moon in but you have to release it before the rounds hit the cylinder. I also give the moon a slight spin so that if they do hit the chamber walls they can slide off into the chambers.

[Bubber]

Walt, Are you using a moonchecker to see if all is well? Unlike the 45's if a 38 has a split in the case at the mouth you can be in trouble reloading in the moons. The wobble can be fixed in a couple of ways. I have seen one that superglued the rounds into the moons so they were solid. But he had lots of Moons and they were for the 8 shot. The only reason that I would use moons on a K or L frame Revo would be so that I would not spend a lot of time picking up my brass. And there is the occasional disaster factor where one case can get caught under the star. This can be remedied by smooth operation, usually your thumb or the rebound shield is the culprit for the stuck case. Mike, a solid revo shooter from NW Arkansas, is looking into having speedsticks made for his L frame. I will check on his progress later this week. Speedstik of the Wildbunch no longer make them but you can get deminsions from their website if you wish. Good luck but I would stick with the speedloaders,

[Carmoney]

It's takes a little faith in your ability to guide the moon in but you have to release it before the rounds hit the cylinder.

A lot of people might not know that Rob V. is the zen master of the revolver. I'll never forget the day he told me the following: "See the moonclip. Be the moonclip. And if your moonclip falls, leave your anger on the ground with it."

[R112mercer]

It's takes a little faith in your ability to guide the moon in but you have to release it before the rounds hit the cylinder.

A lot of people might not know that Rob V. is the zen master of the revolver. I'll never forget the day he told me the following: "See the moonclip. Be the moonclip. And if your moonclip falls, leave your anger on the ground with it."

Or you could be like Rich Timberlake and curse like a freakin' sailor through the rest of the stage...

[hearthco]

I shoot a S&W model 66 that I recently had set up for moon clips. Thought I'd get faster by using them over speed loaders. Going back to "firm speed loaders".

Seems the thickness of the moon clips isn't as sturdy as those for the larger4 calibers. That makes them weak, flimsy. They twist when the 38 special cartrige is in the moon clip, thus causing the brass to be out of line with the cylinder ports.

I have practiced with fast loading at home but the bullets don't always line up. It is great/fast when they do. During my last two competions I've had to toss a total of five fully loaded moon clips on the groud after NOT being able to get the bullts to stay in a cemetrical circle and then drop into the cylinder.

Sooooo, I will now use the moon clips when told to "load and make ready" and when I reload I will go back to the speed loaders. They hold the bullets steady and aligned so they drop into the cylinder.

I hope others haven't had this problem, but I don't know of anyone using a 38/357 in a model 66.

Walt,

Kframe clips are not as firm as L or N frame clips especially if they are only .022 thick.

Most clips are made with the "one size fits all" mentality which is in direct conflict with speed reloading.

The guys are right in that you must be particular about brass, but if the clips are inconsistant you are fighting a looseing battle.

I have fornd that the best combination for the k frame projects I have made clips for is .025 thick clip used with Starline brass. It has a smaller groove diameter which allows for the most material between the cartridge and the clearence cut for the ejector. Dave

[underlug]

It's takes a little faith in your ability to guide the moon in but you have to release it before the rounds hit the cylinder.

A lot of people might not know that Rob V. is the zen master of the revolver. I'll never forget the day he told me the following: "See the moonclip. Be the moonclip. And if your moonclip falls, leave your anger on the ground with it."

I think I know what my first tattoo is going to say

[RPM8shot]

A few guys where I shoot have model 14's moonclipped.

They also had problems reloading because of their "grip" on the moonclip and angle of the gun. they would grab the clip tightly and try to mash it into the gun. Part of their problem was reloading technique and part due to equipment. I used the gun and had no problems loading. I showed them the following:

Try to moonclip all your ammo for the match ahead of time. Fumbling with ammo and clips between stages is stressful. Try to use all the same headstamp brass. Federal, RP or Starline works best. Short colt brass fall easily. Nickel plated is not necessary. Drop check all ammo at home. Reject those that don't drop easily.

I also spin each round in the clip. The spinning actually takes the burrs off the lip of the brass. Try it you will see what I mean. Those burrs if lined up in the clip correctly, will actually prevent a clips from falling.

Between stages, I actually take the ammo I am going to use and kind of pinch the rims of the cases into the moonclip, then spin each round agian. It is almost like a nervous habit now.

On the line I drop check a couple of clips while making ready. Once agian a nervous habit now. Do this quickly because you don't want make an all day project of of moonclip checking.

Personally, I like to use the thumb, index and middle finger to pick (3 finger pick) the top of the clip out of the moon holder by the edges in a pinching motion then drop the clip in the cylinder. Others use the pinching technique almost like palming the clip. Hold gun vertical as possible while dropping moonclip. The important thing to remember is relax and not to pinch too tightly, because that is what causes the rounds in a loose fitting clips to splay outward.

Note: If not using Hearthco clips: Use a bright light and a magnifying glass to look at each clip for any raised edges around the part that supports the rim of the brass. If your clips are stamped you will need to smooth off the lip left from the stamping process. Run your finger on the clip: like testing the sharpness of a blade to feel for the raised edge. I took all of my moonclips (K frame) and polished them on a piece of glass with a piece of 400 grit wet/dry. Use oil or solvent and polish in a circular motion. After I did this I have had no problems. This technique will work for Hearthco clips also.

Hope this helps

Renny

OOPS,

forgot to mention that the clips were .025" thick.

[festus1]

Very informative RPM8shot, thanks. Another thought- Brownells and TK Custom have "moon checker" cylinders for checking moons w/o having to use your gun's cylinder. Handy for matches. They come in all persuasions. Chris

[Walt S]

WOW ! ! ! A lot of info, and very good info. The more I read the more it all makes sense. In the last hour I have tried what you guys have suggested, starting with Dan's suggestion of having the gun pointing toward the ground and letting gravity feed the cylinder. Then I stopped "gripping and shoving" the moon clip into the cylinder.

I do load the clips before a match. In fact I have all 27 clips loaded now. I run each round through the cylinder right after reloading, setting aside any case that hanges up. Then I load the moon clips and drop them into the cylinder.

NOW, I have dropped, not jammed the 27 clips, three times each,

into the cylinder. I had one, the same one hang up. It is now set aside for the "LOAD AND MAKE READY" command. The rest of the clips WORKED FINE.

I used every different case manufacturer that I had. Even mixed them. Since that works I will sort them out and load the same in each moon clip. I currently favor R-P but will pay more attention to START-LINE brass.

Now for some practice every night and practice while moving.

WHO KNOWS, ONE OF THESE DAYS I MAY BECOME A HALF WAY DESENT COMPETITOR.

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU

[10mmdave]

WHO KNOWS, ONE OF THESE DAYS I MAY BECOME A HALF WAY DESENT COMPETITOR.

You already are because your out there competing

[Walt S]

TIME TO CLOSE THIS TOPIC OUT

I took all your advice and things worked GREAT. Was using Dan's weak hand reload and DROPPING the moons into the cylinder instead of PUSHING them in. Practiced 3 nights at home before last Sundays competition. Well, the adrenaline set in, I used a strong hand reload which meant that the moons tried to go in at a slight angle. DAMN. Didn't work so I pushed harder. Glad people video these events because I would not have believed what I was doing unless I saw it.

Back home, more weak hand reloading, barrel vertical, dropping the moons into the cyliner. WORKED GREAT AGAIN.

Soooooo, I've ordered more moons and the new Twin Full Mon Clip Holder, of which I had one already.

Since I know THE PROBLEM IS MINE and not the vendors I will now say that I'm please with the product and the support from TK CUSTOMS.

Thanks again for all you suggestions. This is a GREAT FORUM