Help With First Glock

[Jeremiah]

This site got me through my first 1911, and I'm thrilled with the results.

Well, now is the time to try the plastic guns. This gun will be for 50/50 carry and IDPA. My requirments, as they set now, is that it has to be a 9 mm and that's about it. I'm thinking of the 19 right now. I think I've just about totally ruled out the baby glock 26. The 34 would be king for IDPA, but I can't afford one right now. The 34 would also not be very good inside my waistband in a carry situation. The 19 would carry very nicely. The 17 would be a better IDPA gun over the 19, but maybe not that much better. Just as the 17 would be a better IDPA gun, but not by much, over the 19.

I also shoot IDPA (the only practical competions around here) about 3-4 times a year. I carry lots and my primary carry gun is a steel 1911, so any glock is going to be loads better in that department.

What would you guys do in my situation? Money is also a factor, so owning one of each won't cut it. I'm thinking the 17 with the cheap 2# trigger would be a great IDPA set up, but then it wouldn't be a very good carry gun (liability?). Used 17's are also much more prevalent than used 19's. I could get a used 17 and put in a new trigger group for the cost of a 19.

Can the 19 be competitive with the short sight radius? When I shoot IDPA, I usually end up first or second most of the time in CDP. I like being competitive, so I don't want to hurt my chances to much. I could also end up still shooting the 1911 for idpa, so that's another issue. I'm confused, if you couldn't tell.

Please help out a guy find the right tupperware for the situation.

Thanks.

[GeorgeInNePa]

This site got me through my first 1911, and I'm thrilled with the results.

Well, now is the time to try the plastic guns. This gun will be for 50/50 carry and IDPA. My requirments, as they set now, is that it has to be a 9 mm and that's about it. I'm thinking of the 19 right now. I think I've just about totally ruled out the baby glock 26. The 34 would be king for IDPA, but I can't afford one right now. The 34 would also not be very good inside my waistband in a carry situation. The 19 would carry very nicely. The 17 would be a better IDPA gun over the 19, but maybe not that much better. Just as the 17 would be a better IDPA gun, but not by much, over the 19.

I also shoot IDPA (the only practical competions around here) about 3-4 times a year. I carry lots and my primary carry gun is a steel 1911, so any glock is going to be loads better in that department.

What would you guys do in my situation? Money is also a factor, so owning one of each won't cut it. I'm thinking the 17 with the cheap 2# trigger would be a great IDPA set up, but then it wouldn't be a very good carry gun (liability?). Used 17's are also much more prevalent than used 19's. I could get a used 17 and put in a new trigger group for the cost of a 19.

Can the 19 be competitive with the short sight radius? When I shoot IDPA, I usually end up first or second most of the time in CDP. I like being competitive, so I don't want to hurt my chances to much. I could also end up still shooting the 1911 for idpa, so that's another issue. I'm confused, if you couldn't tell.

Please help out a guy find the right tupperware for the situation.

Thanks.

The difference between the 17 and the 19 for most IDPA matches is not really going to matter. As long as the 19 isn't too small for your hand(you're not a gorilla or anything are you?).

Since you say you shoot IDPA only 3 or 4 times per year, I'd say go with the 19. Of course, you could stay with CDP and get something nice and small to carry, say maybe, a tiny Kahr Arms 9mm?

ETA:

I like Glocks, I've owned 5 different Glocks and currently shoot a G34 in IDPA SSP and USPSA Production.

Edited January 30, 2006 by GeorgeInNePa

[jkrispies]

I carry lots and my primary carry gun is a steel 1911, so any glock is going to be loads better in that department.

Given your parameters--which sounds like a carry gun for essentially 365 days a year, and a competition gun for 4--I'd opt for the G19 with its more compact grip. As far as sight radius goes, you're only talking about losing a half inch versus the G17, and if you decide to eventually upgrade the sights to an adjustable set that hangs back farther on the slide (such as Bomar or Dawson), you'll end up making most of that up.

Just my opinion...

John

[Mark Perez]

If I were you , I'd find a place that has each for rent (like an indoor range) and test drive with duty and generic ball ammo.

Concealibility is about holsters & clothing styles vs. the size of the gun . The general rule is carry the biggest gun you can , comfortably.

The 17 & 19 are so similar in size and weight , that there is really very little difference for consideration.

Until that day,

M

Edited January 30, 2006 by Mark Perez

[Precision40]

If your going to use the gun for both carry and comp, I'd recommend the 17 with a 3.5# connector. Going with a 2# trigger pretty much makes the gun a no-go for carry unless you can put up with swapping the trigger guts out on a regular basis. It's all about what you want to do.

IMHO there is not alot you can do to a Glock trigger if you want to use it for both other than the 3.5# connector and some polishing.

[spook]

Personally I would do what Precision40 suggests (a G17 with a 3.5lbs. connector). But if your hands are small enough you might as well go for the 19.

Try them both out a couple of times, then decide

Whatever you choose, 17 or 19, it will be a good choice.

[dajarrel]

As far as accuracy goes, I think if that was the only choice, I would go with the g17. The longer sight radius aids tremendously in that area.

FWIW

dj

[Jeremiah]

Thanks for all the responses.

I'm no gorilla, 6'2" 250#, and my hands are smallish for my frame. I really don't see a problem with the 19's grip. My whole hand will fits on it fairly well.

I also say I shoot IDPA four times a year, but during those months that I shoot the matches I may shoot three times a week for practice. That's partly why I want a 9 mm, cheaper to shoot than my 45 acp.

I'll probably shoot this gun a lot. My biggest hang up right now is I want a carry gun that is fun to shoot. A stock 19 trigger is supposed to be 5.5#, so I can't see how fun that would be? But, it would be great in a self defense situation.

It's all trade offs, I know that. I just can't decide what I want to trade off and what I need to keep.

Keep them coming....

[spook]

Thanks for all the responses.

I'm no gorilla, 6'2" 250#, and my hands are smallish for my frame. I really don't see a problem with the 19's grip. My whole hand will fits on it fairly well.

I also say I shoot IDPA four times a year, but during those months that I shoot the matches I may shoot three times a week for practice. That's partly why I want a 9 mm, cheaper to shoot than my 45 acp.

I'll probably shoot this gun a lot. My biggest hang up right now is I want a carry gun that is fun to shoot. A stock 19 trigger is supposed to be 5.5#, so I can't see how fun that would be? But, it would be great in a self defense situation.

It's all trade offs, I know that. I just can't decide what I want to trade off and what I need to keep.

Keep them coming....

I have the feeling you want a G19, but the heavy trigger is holding you back?

Get the G19, throw in the 3.5lbs. connector (about a $20 part) and you got yourself a G34 trigger pull.

BTW, the stock 5.5lbs. trigger is good enough to win the World Championship in IPSC. It just takes some practice

[Jeremiah]

Spook, you hit it on the head there.

Will the 19 respond well to the connector replacement? Are all glocks the same in this regard?

"BTW, the stock 5.5lbs. trigger is good enough to win the World Championship in IPSC. It just takes some practice"

I'm coming from a clean and crisp 1911, so try to feel for me a little

[spook]

Jeremiah,

All Glocks are the same with exchanging connectors. You can just toss that part in and have a better trigger. Try the G34 and you will know what kind of trigger to expect.

It will take some gettin' used to, coming from a crisp 1911. But it could be worse. You could be shooting DA revolvers with 12lbs. triggers, like me

[Headshot45]

as someone who is 50 yrs old, and has carried a 5" 1911 for 30 years, I can also add to this discussion.....

I have found that for my body type, 6 ft and built like a slightly overweight fullback, I like the 19 better if carrying in a belt holster as it will clear faster than a 17, but I also have found that a 17 carries better in an inside-the waist holster as it has less tendency to torque its way out......the 19 tries to sneak out of the ITW holsters that I have....Sparks Versamax, Blade Tech IWB, Comp-Tac IWB, and Andrews IWB...mainly because of my body shape. I have friends that are, shall we say, more svelte than I, and they carry the 19 with no problem.

As to IDPA, I have shot this sport since its inception, and we have a lot of guys who are classified as Expert and Master, that shoot their 17's and 19's from their IWB holster, so pick what fits you best according to your attire and body shape, and trust the set up. My personal 19 has a fully polished Ghost Rocket 3.5 connector with Trijicon Night Sights that I carry everyday and I am a dyed-in-the-wool 1911 guy! I find that the 19 carries better, is lighter, and holds more BB's.....what more can you say?

Frank

[shred]

I'd get the 19 and a good set of sights. The 19 won't be holding you back in IDPA for a long time, and for me, is a lot easier to carry comfortably. If you really don't like it, it's pretty easy to trade one out for a 17.

[ima45dv8]

Going with a 2# trigger pretty much makes the gun a no-go for carry unless you can put up with swapping the trigger guts out on a regular basis.

Why is that? Are the 2# kits unreliable?

[jkrispies]

Going with a 2# trigger pretty much makes the gun a no-go for carry unless you can put up with swapping the trigger guts out on a regular basis.

Why is that? Are the 2# kits unreliable?

I have a G17 that I compete with. It currently has a 3.5 trigger (probably closer to a 4# since I've left the stock firing pin spring in) and find that it's WORLDS better than stock... and I just ordered a Stileto 2# kit this weekend. I want something that's less "mushy," which is supposed to be the case with the Stileto kit.

Having said that, I've pretty much decided that the G17 (with it's two extra mags and 52 bullets in total) will no longer be my next-to-the-bed gun, but rather my good ol' six round revolver. Why? I don't want to get too "happy on the trigger" when something goes bump in the night. Two pounds is just way too light when you could potentially be pointing it at a good guy (wife, kid, senile old woman who found your door unlocked) and you're already jumpy for perhaps the wrong reason... or you're tripping over the wife's shoes that she kicked off in the middle of the now dark hallway. A heavier trigger is simply another safety.

BTW, Jeremiah, once you buy a Glock, you'll discover that the absolute best thing about the gun is that you can tinker with it to your heart's content and never have to worry about taking it to a gunsmith. Ever. Parts like the triggers are pretty much interchangeable throughout all the guns (although bigger guns like the 10mm's can be a bit "non-standard") and it's EASY to figure out on your own. Sites like www.topglock.com have schematics and instructions that are a snap to follow. Just buy a 3.5# connector (they're dirt cheap) and spend an hour or so polishing all the trigger parts (this is free), and you'll have a competition ready trigger that will serve you perfectly well in carry mode.

Edited January 30, 2006 by jkrispies

[ima45dv8]

John, I understand what you're getting at, but for me it's not a point I dwell on too much. If we stumble or stagger or otherwise get startled with a finger on the trigger, having a 25-50 lb. pull might prevent it from going off. Keeping our fingers off of the trigger until ready to fire (I think I read that somewhere ) seems like a more prudent course of action.

[Trisha Lowry]

The glock 19 is a great carry gun and if you are looking for some trigger work or parts check out Matt's site at www.customglock.com. Great service and is great at answering any questions you might have.

[jkrispies]

John, I understand what you're getting at, but for me it's not a point I dwell on too much. If we stumble or stagger or otherwise get startled with a finger on the trigger, having a 25-50 lb. pull might prevent it from going off. Keeping our fingers off of the trigger until ready to fire (I think I read that somewhere ) seems like a more prudent course of action.

Hey, dv8 (love your name, btw), not to argue (I'm not, really! ) but...

I think it's a little different with that light of a trigger. Aside from not having your finger on the trigger till ready to blow the target up, I'm also thinking along the lines of stumbling over something, falling, and the gun being jarred enough that the trigger is allowed to fall. Kinda along the lines of walking through the woods with a hunting rifle, dropping it, and having it go off (from either the jar or getting caught on something on the way down) because the trigger is light and ready to go.

I know that Glock has the little lock thingy in the trigger blade that's supposed to prevent the trigger from falling, but I can also say that since I went to the 3.5 pound spring, that little lock doesn't engage 100% of the time. Plus, if I happen to place my finger on the trigger, setting it back (as I may be wont to do once or twice while investigatin a bump in the night), it won't return to full engagement afterwards unless I physically pull it out. Maybe my gun is just weird that way, but I bet that if folks really paid attention to their Glock triggers, more than a few would see the same thing in theirs.

To each his own and all, but I can say that for me I'm paranoid enough that I'd just prefer not to chance it.

Just my $.02,

John

[ima45dv8]

No worries, John. I wasn't trying to start an argument either.

And as 300lb. Gorilla's sig line says, "Just 'cause you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you".

[jkrispies]

No worries, John. I wasn't trying to start an argument either.

And as 300lb. Gorilla's sig line says, "Just 'cause you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you".

Yeah-- the paranoid live longer, right?

[BR]

Hi Jeremiah-

You can set up a G19 just about the same as a G17, e.g, triggger, grip tape, sights, etc... I'm not sure if you can get a tungsten guide rod for the G19, but I would not bother with getting tungsten for either.

I started shooting with a Kimber 1911 and took basic shooting classes with it. A few years later I took a multi-day class, where we shot a lot of rounds. I don't reload, and bought a G17 to use; 9mm much cheaper than either .40 or .45 if you do not reload. I have since taken several more classes with the G17. Once I cleaned up the trigger and got used to it, and got decent sights, I found that I consistently shot better and faster with the glock. While I love 1911s, the timer proves it. Go figure. I have pretty muched changed over from the 1911 and shoot glocks almost exclusively.

When I started competing this summer, I bought a G34 and use it for USPSA production and have used it for IDPA. I've also used my G17 for both.

I am built like a 12 year old girl, 5'8" 135 pounds. My waist is 30". I run. I use my G17 for my carry gun all year round in a UCR holster, no problems. Would the G19 be a bit easier to carry and to conceal? Definitely - about a half-inch's worth. But, with my gentle figure, I have never had an issue concealing and comfortably carrying my G17. I prefer the G17 to the G19, as the grip is a bit different. I shoot my buddy's G23, and definitely prefer the grip on the G17, especially when shooting one-handed and I know for a fact that I hit faster reloads with the full length grip compared to the G19. With the G17 I get the same grip, use the same mags, same everything as the G34. My G34 is set up with Ralph Sotelo's drop-in trigger kit [great], Eric's true grip [great], and sevigny competition WTS rear sight [great] with dawson FO front [great].

My carry/back-up G17 is set up with the sevigny rear and a tritium front sight and the true grip [must wear undershirt!]. Now, against the maker's recommendation, I use an "unnamed" drop-in trigger kit, but use a 5lb. connector and the stock striker and striker spring. I love it. Nice crisp trigger, but as safe as any glock. In fact, I was using a lightened steel striker and reduced striker spring on my G34, but switched back to stock striker and stock striker spring for a better reset. Kept the polished 3.5lb. connector. I think it is the perfect combo.

Now, you really will not go wrong with either one, providing you shoot it and get used to it. I just happened to have a G17. A year ago I was sure I needed a G19 for carry, but I have come to appreciate the G17 as just about perfect, FOR ME. Cheers.

-br

[Jeremiah]

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it guys.

It sounds like this is really just a personal decision with no hard facts to go either way in this particular situation. It also sounds like I can't go wrong either way.

[Jeremiah]

Well, I just ordered my new Glock M19 last night from topglock.com ($467 shipped.) I think I made a good choice for what I want to do with the gun. I have also looked into reloading components and worked up some numbers for cost for a box of ammo compared to the cheap factory stuff. I came up with saving about $1 to $1.50 depending on if I bought brass or not. That's using a 115 grain load. The reload was a winchester bulk bullet and the cheapest factory stuff I found was either CCI blazer or Wolf. Maybe this isn't the place for the question, but is there a cheaper load out there for 9 mm?

[jkrispies]

Well, I just ordered my new Glock M19 last night from topglock.com ($467 shipped.) I think I made a good choice for what I want to do with the gun. I have also looked into reloading components and worked up some numbers for cost for a box of ammo compared to the cheap factory stuff. I came up with saving about $1 to $1.50 depending on if I bought brass or not. That's using a 115 grain load. The reload was a winchester bulk bullet and the cheapest factory stuff I found was either CCI blazer or Wolf. Maybe this isn't the place for the question, but is there a cheaper load out there for 9 mm?

Jeremiah,

If you're thinking of getting into reloading for no other reason than to save money on 9mm, then you'd be better off sticking with CCI and Winchester White Box (from Walmart). It's a decent round, and if you figure in the cost of purchasing new equipment, it's really hard to justify the cost and time involved for ONLY 9mm. Just to give you an idea of what I mean... if you were to buy 100 pieces of 9mm Winchester brass, it'll cost about $12, vs. about $14 for 100 loaded rounds of Winchester White box. It's almost like Winchester is throwing in the bullet for free, and you don't have to spend the time making the round... and if you're like me, you consider your time to be money. Then again, if you can get the brass for free, it'll start paying for itself a lot faster.

Now, if you're not so much concerned with cost but just want a HIGHER QUALITY bullet, then order a Dillon from Brian right away! You'll not only be satisfied with the results, but once you start reloading for that .45 of yours, it'll pay for the equipment very quickly.

Since I don't like to trust range left-overs, I'll personally buy WWB, convince myself that it's "free brass" after using it that first time, and then reload the hell out of it. 125 grain Zero JHP's over 4.2ish grains of Titegroup seems to be the magic load for 9mm and Glocks. It's also a relatively inexpensive load if you're planning to use jacketed bullets exclusively. PM me if you'd like to know the cheaper places to get the powder and bullets, as I'll have to check my records back at home, probably tomorrow night...

John

[Jeremiah]

Well, I just ordered my new Glock M19 last night from topglock.com ($467 shipped.) I think I made a good choice for what I want to do with the gun. I have also looked into reloading components and worked up some numbers for cost for a box of ammo compared to the cheap factory stuff. I came up with saving about $1 to $1.50 depending on if I bought brass or not. That's using a 115 grain load. The reload was a winchester bulk bullet and the cheapest factory stuff I found was either CCI blazer or Wolf. Maybe this isn't the place for the question, but is there a cheaper load out there for 9 mm?

Jeremiah,

If you're thinking of getting into reloading for no other reason than to save money on 9mm, then you'd be better off sticking with CCI and Winchester White Box (from Walmart). It's a decent round, and if you figure in the cost of purchasing new equipment, it's really hard to justify the cost and time involved for ONLY 9mm. Just to give you an idea of what I mean... if you were to buy 100 pieces of 9mm Winchester brass, it'll cost about $12, vs. about $14 for 100 loaded rounds of Winchester White box. It's almost like Winchester is throwing in the bullet for free, and you don't have to spend the time making the round... and if you're like me, you consider your time to be money. Then again, if you can get the brass for free, it'll start paying for itself a lot faster.

Now, if you're not so much concerned with cost but just want a HIGHER QUALITY bullet, then order a Dillon from Brian right away! You'll not only be satisfied with the results, but once you start reloading for that .45 of yours, it'll pay for the equipment very quickly.

Since I don't like to trust range left-overs, I'll personally buy WWB, convince myself that it's "free brass" after using it that first time, and then reload the hell out of it. 125 grain Zero JHP's over 4.2ish grains of Titegroup seems to be the magic load for 9mm and Glocks. It's also a relatively inexpensive load if you're planning to use jacketed bullets exclusively. PM me if you'd like to know the cheaper places to get the powder and bullets, as I'll have to check my records back at home, probably tomorrow night...

John

Hey John, I think you got the wrong idea. I'm already a reloader, and my stuff is all paid for by the amount of 45's I have chucked out!

I can load 9mm for $3.97 per box. (that's at wholesale prices and paying $10 per K for brass) Do you know of somewhere else that I could work up a minor load cheaper?