Mortify Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 After switching from the Dillon sizing die to Lee on my 550, the seating die is shaving lead on one side (usually the same side, but not always) of 147gr flat-nosed bullets. I'm sizing and crimping in separate stages. The shavings aren't an issue for semi-autos, but my revolver won't seat them in the cylinder. Things I've tried: Belling more (1-1/2 turns more), and it got worse (from ~30% of the time to 60%). Switching bullet manufacturers from Bayou to Black Bullets Carefully setting bullets in the case as straight as possible Confirming that I'm using the flat-nose insert on the Dillon seating die. Resetting the sizing die: overcammed touching the shellplate backed off 1/4 turn backed off 1/2 turn The Lee die may just be a coincidence, but the Lee is also causing one other very minor issue: none of the rounds seat fully in a gauge even without lead shavings. They're only ~0.01" high and most can be forced in, but the Dillon seated cleanly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 you have two problems... one is belling. second is funnel/expander for the bullet itself. you may have a third problem and it is to be solved after the shaving problem is fixed. the crimp die may swage the bullets. If you have it, try using a 38 powder funnel. the shorter one... I think is 38special and it should get you close. the 38 super is a bit longer and may be good for deeper bullet seating. If you happen to be using a Lee FCD, set it aside for jacketed bullets. You should use a plain ole taper crimp. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacy Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 I replaced my 9mm powder funnel with one from photoescape and it resolved all of my problems with weird sizing issues and oddities between different brands of range brass. http://photoescapeinc.com/products/9htc-ptu.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 get rid of the Dillon seat die.. I know a swamp where one is. Never could get it to work consistently had similar issues, and random failure to fully chambers that would lock up the gun.. Have no idea why.. Tossed it, put a lee or RCBS seater in and problem went away.. Even backed out I think a Dillon seater tries to remove flare and brass grabs the bullet before it is fully seated,,, but even with using a FCD in station 4 I still got failures.. SO really no idea why other than I know it was the Dillon die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortify Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 2 hours ago, Joe4d said: Dillon seater tries to remove flare and brass grabs the bullet before it is fully seated This is what appears to be happening. What I cannot figure out is why this just started. That seating die has over 150K rounds through it. Maybe I need to put the Dillon sizing die back and see if it goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 While correlation does not prove causation.. Its a prime suspect... If problem A started right after you changed part B Id highly suspect part B.. Pretty much what I did,, although in my case issue was the new seat die... I dont recall if I changed size die or not at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 20 hours ago, Mortify said: the seating die is shaving lead on one side (usually the same side, but not always) of 147gr flat-nosed bullets. The die isn't "shaving" the lead. What is happening is your bullets are not going straight (or close to it) into the brass. The Dillon powder funnel isn't the best and that is why Mr. Bullet Feeder, Alpha and the one listed here all have a step to size the brass and hold the bullet in place. There are better seating dies which also hold the bullet in better alignment, Hornady is the lowest price and Redding the highest. The bullet switch shouldn't be much of an issue except for quality control and sizing. See if you new ones are the same diameter as the old ones. .357 is harder to load than .356 or .355. Love the hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 I need more cow-bell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 ok one more swing... the expander/funnel has to open the brass enough that the lead bullet base is seated without swaging. that includes a little flare or bell at the case mouth. (the photo looks like no bell done by expander.) a 9mm expander will cause a .356 lead bullet to swage to .355 plus and a 357 bullet to swage to .355 plus a bit more... so you need a 38 expander for lead/plated/coated 9mm bullets. we ain't done... if seat and crimp are done in one station... a 'just enough' crimp will not cause shaving. ever. The shaving could be done here in this station with the crimp closing the case mouth while the bullet gets seated a bit more. so raise the die and lower the seat till the shave stops. should you have a separate crimp, the last problem and it is not a shaving problem. do not use a lee FCD on a 9mm lead bullet round. It will swage most lead bullets. Just the taper crimp is all you need. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 On 6/20/2024 at 2:42 PM, Mortify said: After switching from the Dillon sizing die to Lee on my 550, the seating die is shaving lead on one side (usually the same side, but not always) of 147gr flat-nosed bullets. I'm sizing and crimping in separate stages. The shavings aren't an issue for semi-autos, but my revolver won't seat them in the cylinder. Things I've tried: Belling more (1-1/2 turns more), and it got worse (from ~30% of the time to 60%). Switching bullet manufacturers from Bayou to Black Bullets Carefully setting bullets in the case as straight as possible Confirming that I'm using the flat-nose insert on the Dillon seating die. Resetting the sizing die: overcammed touching the shellplate backed off 1/4 turn backed off 1/2 turn The Lee die may just be a coincidence, but the Lee is also causing one other very minor issue: none of the rounds seat fully in a gauge even without lead shavings. They're only ~0.01" high and most can be forced in, but the Dillon seated cleanly. @Mortify Lot's of good info already posted. FWIW, I have always used Redding dies for loading JHP or Coated lead bullets. What proved the most successful solution for "shaving" bullets was one I shared ~10 years ago: As someone mentioned, IMO nothing creates a better "seat" in your brass than the MBF "style" funnel used in your Dillon Powder Measure. It's VERY important to use a funnel that is correctly sized for your particular diameter bullet. Funnels are available at Photo Escape: https://www.photoescapeinc.com/products/powder-funnel.html https://www.photoescapeinc.com/products/9htc-ptu.html Or both styles are available at UniqueTek: https://uniquetek.com/shop/ols/products/custom-powder-funnel/v/T1582-01 https://uniquetek.com/shop/ols/products/9mm38-htc-powder-funnel Finally, I have ALWAYS had the most success loading lead bullets with a HIGH quality seating die and separate taper crimp die. HTHs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortify Posted June 24 Author Share Posted June 24 It is not the Lee sizing die that is causing the problem. I've switched back to the Dillon die and have exactly the same problem. I've also confirmed that more bell on the case causes the problem more frequently. So I'll start by trying a new powder funnel. If that resolves nothing, I'll try a new seating die. It's maddening because this same equipment has loaded tens of thousands of these bullets without issue. Maybe something finally went out of spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I read the first post statement that more bell --> caused increased shaving. how about I agree that the expander/funnel is involved and you can get 'more' shave if... big if there... your expander does not open the case enough to fit the bullet. the bullet will swage or shave. you need a bit more expansion... try a 38 funnel. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 its not your expander.. Have loaded a gazzillion rounds with the stock 550 parts. only issue I ever had with dillon was the one seater die. The stock expander expands fine,, you are either not seating the bullet square or the seater is removing the flare before the bullet is all the way seated. Flare a piece of brass like normal,, back your seater stem way out,, then back out entire die,, rotate the sized and flared brass to the seat station no bullet, pull the handle all the way down, raising the ram all the way up. Leaving it like that screw the seat die body down till you feel it make contact with the brass,,, Lower ram, and give it maybe 1/2 turn and lock it down.. Raise up brass, you want just enough bell removed so the brass will fit in the next station crimp die. Then adjust your seating stem to your OAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4n2t0 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) If the OP is still using the Dillon seater then it doesn't function that way Joe4d. It's not a two piece die and you can't back out the seating stem. OP: I was having a similar issue. It may not be the exact same problem but it's probably worth a read. Just ignore my first few posts, I thought I was crazy, lol. What I can't explain is why it didn't happen to you before but is happening now, weird! Did you change bullets brands? Bullet weights? etc. Edited June 24 by 4n2t0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 50 minutes ago, 4n2t0 said: If the OP is still using the Dillon seater then it doesn't function that way Joe4d. It's not a two piece die and you can't back out the seating stem. OP: I was having a similar issue. It may not be the exact same problem but it's probably worth a read. Just ignore my first few posts, I thought I was crazy, lol. What I can't explain is why it didn't happen to you before but is happening now, weird! Did you change bullets brands? Bullet weights? etc. ah thats right,, its got that clip thing, and you can only adjust the entire die,,, probably why I tossed mine in the swamp.. SO my advice is to do like I did,, toss the dillon seat die and get another brand you can adjust properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 so lets see, possible fixes... we have expander we have seater we have crimp/seat how to fix or test? see if you can get jacketed bullets to shave. that will prove that your problem is caused by lead bullets... what dies can you swap? If you have a different seating die give it a try. please be aware that you may want to check rounds for bullet fall out and base getting swaged as part of the shaving. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) What seating and crimp die are you using? If you don't have good press concentricity and shell plate platform alignment (check with the Dillon tool) you will always be putting in bullets crooked by virtue of the platform and tool head not being able to be aligned. Also, this mis alignment can be exaggerated by using a m-die style expander which keeps the case walls more "upright" after expanding than a traditional belling expansion. This SAME exact thing would happen to me in 40 on my press, solution for that scenario was to not use the m-die style expander (photo escape), go back to the Dillon trumpet flare, use a FLAT NOSE seater stem on my flat points, and also verify the press platform indexing was good. Could also tell that things weren't seating right with the Dillon seating die, by evidence of the shaving on the side and imprint on the nose on one side. (Dillon dies have that hole in the plug and that indents the coating). Switching to a bare Lee flat seater fixed that . Here's a pic. Edited June 27 by Guitarmageddon added pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Double check that platform alignment too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortify Posted June 29 Author Share Posted June 29 (edited) Sadly, the Photoescape funnel didn't resolve the issue although it did reduce the frequency of shaving. The bullets look different now with scrapes running down the side that weren't there before the funnel which must mean it's dragging on one side. This gives credence to Guitarmageddon's alignment idea even though I've recently done that I'll try again. If not, I'll order an RCBS seater. Edited June 29 by Mortify attach photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortify Posted July 2 Author Share Posted July 2 Using the alignment tool did stop the marks that I saw on the bullets from appearing, but did not stop shaving lead. I'm not sold that the bullet seater is the issue unless it's worn out because that die has loaded tens of thousands of this bullet type. With that in mind, I'll give Dillon a call before I spend another $45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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