ysrracer Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 13 hours ago, dannyd said: Considering Star 38 short cases are just short 357 magnum cases, doing that to the primer pockets is definitely putting some strange on them. Dimensionally, yes. But who knows about structurally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 4 hours ago, Farmer said: Just throwing this out there but could it be the way the moon clips fit? I mean could they be pushing up on the outside edges more or the SL brass has a bit of a bevel that eventually swages out? Do the moons fit differently on the multi-fired cases than new ones? I wouldn't think so. The fit is pretty loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel45 Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 1 hour ago, ysrracer said: Dimensionally, yes. But who knows about structurally. Internally they are thinner then the magnum. I cut a 357,and a 38 down both were thicker then the short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyd Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 2 hours ago, ysrracer said: Dimensionally, yes. But who knows about structurally. Call Star they will explain it all to you, already talked to them years ago, I have never experienced anything like in over 180,000 38/357 rounds using mostly Star Cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargoil66 Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 11 hours ago, Squirrel45 said: Internally they are thinner then the magnum. I cut a 357,and a 38 down both were thicker then the short. Yes. All brass is thicker at the web to contain the pressure. I have never heard of a primer pocket getting smaller. Or something akin to a military crimp being put on the brass from firing. I don't hot load anything and when I did (with rifle) all I experienced was primer pockets opening up to the point where the primer would fall out. I can't visualize something like what YRR is describing happening with pistol brass with the exception of the load being way too hot but then the headstamp would be flattened out beyond recognition after a few shots too. Can't figure it out and never experienced it. Have experienced a piece of virgin brass not take a primer though. Would try it with a new primer and it would work. When it happens with used brass, it is because the brass didn't center over the primer ram. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeSoprano Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 Could it be the gun? Firing pin bushing out too far and cupping the brass/primer when fired OR too much space between the firing pin and the primer causing the case to blow back and get cupped when fired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 I have to wonder about the "I can't see it so it ain't possible" drift. There are lots of things we don't understand about this sport. That's actually a large part of why this and other forums exist! Look at all of the " how do I" "why does this happen" and "what did you do when" threads. A look at just the Dillon equipment shows 282 pages of content. Pages. Not all are questions but many are. I'm sure many of us have never experienced some of those problems, but there they are. The questions about reloading are too many to count! But they are things that somebody doesn't understand and would like explained. I have thought that this particular problem might be from pushing the primers in to the max into the primer pocket which is unsupported in the center. If the brass is for some reason weaker, thinner or more unsupported in that area of that case it might cause a small inward push that might cause the problem. Some primer depths can be adjusted, some cannot. I am talking about a few dozen maybe less in a 2K batch of maybe 25 times fired cases. The ones that I have fixed don't seem to bother anymore. In fact they are again part of a 2K batch. I think the more we learn, the more we understand how much we have to learn. Happy reloading to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 14 hours ago, Squirrel45 said: Internally they are thinner then the magnum. I cut a 357,and a 38 down both were thicker then the short. whoda thunk it,,, I woulda guessed tooling up for a completely different case would be more trouble than just keeping everything the same but the length. Think I have heard it alot on here that 38SC special and magnum was the same,, and just accepted it.. but now that you mention it, if you stop and think,, look at all the cut down posts,, where cut down 38'spc cases didnt work because the ID got to small for 358 bullets.. Where as we all load 358's in SC brass.. So it has to be much thinner than magnum brass. Which means I am even more suspect of YRracers loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted May 12 Author Share Posted May 12 1 hour ago, Joe4d said: Which means I am even more suspect of YRracers loads. But we're still on for lunch, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 11 minutes ago, ysrracer said: But we're still on for lunch, right? yeh man,,, I almost drove to texas to shoot... club I went to yesterday gave me bad vibes so I left,, shooting ICORE west of KC on 26 may Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 28 minutes ago, Joe4d said: yeh man,,, I almost drove to texas to shoot... club I went to yesterday gave me bad vibes so I left,, shooting ICORE west of KC on 26 may Not to be nosey but how far do you generally have to drive for ICORE? The nearest matches to me are 2 hrs. or a bit more. Just curious. FWIW I have experimented with 38 Sp cut to 38 SC length and found that the web is too thick for a ,358 bullet. I make mine at .900 because that was as short as I could go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 4 hours ago, Dr. Phil said: Not to be nosey but how far do you generally have to drive for ICORE? The nearest matches to me are 2 hrs. or a bit more. Just curious. FWIW I have experimented with 38 Sp cut to 38 SC length and found that the web is too thick for a ,358 bullet. I make mine at .900 because that was as short as I could go. nerest and basically only ICORE is a hair over 2 hours... to far to do often.. Steel challenge is almost as far, but to me not worth the drive. Yeh far as the brass, I had seen the same thing.. Also in the bowling pin world loading 200 grain bullets, youd bulge 357 brass before you got them short enough . No idea why I believed all this time that Starline 38 short colt brass and 357 and 38 were all the same other than length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 I was reading this and had an odd thought. Could one of those moon-clip loading tools be exerting enough force to pinch/collapse the brass slightly. Granted the web and rim of the case are the strongest part of the case. However you are using a lever to force what amounts to an empty beer can into a moon clip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargoil66 Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 7 hours ago, Pseudonym said: I was reading this and had an odd thought. Could one of those moon-clip loading tools be exerting enough force to pinch/collapse the brass slightly. Granted the web and rim of the case are the strongest part of the case. However you are using a lever to force what amounts to an empty beer can into a moon clip. 19 hours ago, ysrracer said: But we're still on for lunch, right? More like 'out to lunch'! YR: When you find another one of these pieces of brass, can you measure the internal diameter of the primer pocket and compare it to brass that you know is good? GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 8 hours ago, Pseudonym said: I was reading this and had an odd thought. Could one of those moon-clip loading tools be exerting enough force to pinch/collapse the brass slightly. Granted the web and rim of the case are the strongest part of the case. However you are using a lever to force what amounts to an empty beer can into a moon clip. Couple things here: The cases I had that needed swaging were loaded by hand into the .025 moon clips from my 686 Plus. No tools loading or unloading, except my 1st round in each with a simple twist tool. As I said prior, the rim is probably the strongest part of the case from the side. I had wondered about the strength of the center of the case at the primer pocket from repeated seating of the primers. I have not looked at or measured the thickness of a 38SC in that area so I don't know for sure. We revolver guys are always trying to achieve that "fully seated primer" something like .10 below flush or more so I wonder if that may "push" the primer pocket in. Don't know. Maybe the engineers around here know? My cases that were swaged have not been an issue since so maybe the problem is a one-off at least in my 'case.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted May 13 Author Share Posted May 13 1 hour ago, gargoil66 said: More like 'out to lunch'! YR: When you find another one of these pieces of brass, can you measure the internal diameter of the primer pocket and compare it to brass that you know is good? GG I got tired of crushing four, five or six primers per hundred, and finally took all the brass I had (1000 pieces) and de primed every one, then chamfered every single one. At this point they're all fine, have been loaded multiple times and load easy. If any of them start getting crushed again, sure I'll pull them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargoil66 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 21 hours ago, ysrracer said: I got tired of crushing four, five or six primers per hundred, and finally took all the brass I had (1000 pieces) and de primed every one, then chamfered every single one. At this point they're all fine, have been loaded multiple times and load easy. If any of them start getting crushed again, sure I'll pull them out. Good stuff. Thankyou! GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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