New Rule?

[Rmack]

Does anybody know anything about a new rule that states that you must classify on a yearly basis if you want to be able to shoot a sanctioned match. A local club has this posted on their web site and this is the first time I have heard anything about it.

Robbie

Edited December 31, 2005 by Rmack

[Joe D]

I need to read my new rule book. What is that [rule] going to accomplish? If someone wants to sand bag they will just shoot the classifier match poorly.

It would be soooo much simpler if IDPA went to a IPSC (I can't believe I said IDPA and IPSC in the same sentence) style classifier system.

Whoops!!!!! I hear my phone ringing, must be Bill calling. I knew I should not have said IDPA and IPSC in the same sentence.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Moving on

Edited January 1, 2006 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[Rmack]

I need to read my new rule book.

I have read mine several times and have not seen anything about this.

If someone wants to sand bag they will just shoot the classifier match poorly.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

[Ted Murphy]

The rule book lists that as one of the shooter's responsiblities. I have not been to a major that audited classification cards since 2001. They do not check cards at nationals, they apply "big boy rules" and figure people will do the honorable thing.

I have seen local clubs enforce this when they have a local guy who refuses to shoot the classifier and is a MM beating the Ex class shooters, but that is a rare occurance.

Ted

[Crusher]

It is funny what some can read into the rulebook of IDPA, best to have a copy with you (and KNOW it's contents well) when attending any IDPA match sanctioned or otherwise.

While I'm sure most MD's/RO's mean well and are generally helpful some tend to have slightly off kilter logic when it come to the "interpretation factor" and can be adamant in their approach to the "game".

It has been my observation that there are either some shooting below their classification level at sanctioned matches (masters/experts getting stomped by sharpshooters) or there are too many shooting well above their classification levels at sanctioned matches (probably the former is the case).

Either way it does not matter, shoot to your best ability, have fun and practice (in the future) what your match performance indicates you need work on to improve at the "game".

[postal]

it is a clear and stated rule, it is enforced at sanctioned matches period.

every sanctioned match i attended this year has stated the rule in the application, and in the confirmation as well, this rule has been in affect for almost a year now, it is the shooters responsibility to read what is in black and white

and as far as not doing it at the nationals, i cannot say ether way, i did not attend this year, but i would not chance it, since they do have your information anyway, i would no more chance not being classified than i would lie about the two sanctioned match rule

[f250sd]

Shooter Responsibilities.

1. ALWAYS follow the four laws of gun safety.

2. ALWAYS be conscious of muzzle direction.

3. Refrain from having finger in the trigger guard when not actually engaging targets.

4. Exhibit safe gun handling at all times.

5. Follow the rules in this book and any match-specific or range-specific rules.

6. Acquire and use IDPA legal equipment.

7. Obtain a valid classification and maintain it by shooting the classifier at least once every twelve (12) months (except master class shooters).

8. Assist in taping targets and picking up brass.

9. Be ready to shoot when called to the line (i.e., have appropriate ammo, concealment garment, etc.).

10. Be courteous and respectful to the match officials and other shooters.

So if these are black and white RULES, whats the penalty for not picking up brass or taping on a stage? PO, FTR, or DQ?

What if I forget my cover garment and have to run back 10yrds to get it? PO, FTR, or DQ?

And if another shooter is not courteous and respectful enough to me?

PO, FTR, or DQ?

I'm really not trying to be a smart ***, but one can not take a list of 10 Shooter Responsibilities, and say 7 are rules, and violation of these 7 you can't shoot the match and the last 3 are responsibilities.

The inforcement of interpited rules are, and will continue, to drive shooters away from this game.

[Ted Murphy]

and as far as not doing it at the nationals, i cannot say ether way, i did not attend this year, but i would not chance it, since they do have your information anyway,

I've been to all of them except the first one and they have never done the classification card check.

For the most part they don't have to, seems most everyone in attendence knows the particulars of their competition and would screm murder if someone changed classification.

Ted

[Crusher]

most everyone in attendence knows the particulars of their competition and would screm murder if someone changed classification.

I think the same goes for most state and regional matches also, most of the guys/gals at the top of their respective classes/divisions know or know of the others competitors who are in line to place well in the classes within the divisions.

With the web posting of all the major results on IDPAs website it's not easy to elude detection and sandbag more than one time for a sanctioned match.

[Rmack]

it is a clear and stated rule,

I have only been shooting IDPA since May and in that time I haven't seen one rule in IDPA that is clear and stated. The first three matches I attended I noticed that rules seemed to change from match to match and SO to SO. I was already begining to get frustrated so I attended the SO course. I then realized why there is so much confusion in the rules. In the course that I attended the instructor was not able to give definite answers to rules questions. We were told repeatedly to just use our judgment. I took the course so that I could better understand the rules, but when I left I was more confused than when I started. I still shoot IDPA and am classified as a master in SSP. If the classifier must be shot once a year by every one but mater class shooters then it implies that you could go up or down in classification. This sets up a huge potential for gaming.

I don't think that a Shooters Responsibility would fall under a "Rule".

Just my .2 cents

Happy New Year,

Robbie

Edited January 1, 2006 by Rmack

[Joe D]

Robbie, that is why we have the "Email Rules" in IDPA. I carried a copy of the email Drew sent me pertaining to the use of a Seattle Slug in ESP. They finally came to their senses at HG and realized that there was no difference in adding a Slug than sticking on a steel mag well to a 1911. They both add weight.

It would be so simple to have a section on the IDPA website where rules questions could be answered. If not, then have a Q&A section in the Tactical Journal. I know of one "Corner" that could be replaced if one wanted to save space.

Bill seems to want to insulate himself from those that pay his salary. It was somewhat refreshing when I actually had personal emails from Joyce asking for my input on the new holster rules. Unfortunately all of that was short lived. It does kind of bother me to see a man send his wife to do his job.

[Greg Jones]

Robbie, that is why we have the "Email Rules" in IDPA. I carried a copy of the email Drew sent me pertaining to the use of a Seattle Slug in ESP. They finally came to their senses at HG and realized that there was no difference in adding a Slug than sticking on a steel mag well to a 1911. They both add weight.

It would be so simple to have a section on the IDPA website where rules questions could be answered. If not, then have a Q&A section in the Tactical Journal. I know of one "Corner" that could be replaced if one wanted to save space.

Bill seems to want to insulate himself from those that pay his salary. It was somewhat refreshing when I actually had personal emails from Joyce asking for my input on the new holster rules. Unfortunately all of that was short lived. It does kind of bother me to see a man send his wife to do his job.

I too think that a Q&A and/or FAQ section on rules interpretation would be a nice addition to the IDPA Web site. On another point, Bill Wilson has often stated that he receives no salary as president of IDPA and Joyce is an officer and director of IDPA, so I would not consider her involvement in the sport as one of a man sending his wife to do his job.

[Joe D]

Should not the President of an organization be involved? Sounds a lot like Enron and Health South. I got a chuckle every time I heard the leaders of those two companies state they had no idea as to the things that were going on inside their companies.

So please let's don't go down the "I don't get a salary so I am not involved" road. That dog does not hunt.

You are right I was a bit harsh in the man/woman statement. That one I withdraw.

[Sestock]

The IDPA classification system is a joke. There is a very prominant IDPA writer that once showed up at a state championship, he looked at the registration and saw that no one was shooting master cdp and signed up in that class just so that he would go home with a trophy. He was in fact a SS in classification. This individual has been kicked out of several clubs here in Western PA for simply being an idiot.

How hard would it be for IDPA to record actual classifiers into a national database? If an annual classification is required then record it somewhere!

Edited January 1, 2006 by Sestock

[Greg Jones]

Who said that Bill is not involved? Many have suggested that the warts with IDPA is because Bill is too involved. You offered that Bill wants to insulate himself from those that pay his salary. I just wanted to clarify that Bill Wilson has indicated in the past that he does not draw a salary from IDPA.

How hard would it be for IDPA to record actual classifiers into a national database? If an annual classification is required then record it somewhere!

I agree completely! It would probably involve paying a match fee to HQ similar to other shooting organizations, but IMO it would be well worth it.

[Infinity001]

Dear Guys, In Italy I never heard about this roule, I know only that we change the classification on the base of results in sanctioned matchs.

[Tom Freeman]

We run the classifier about three to four times a year. Out of 30-35 shooters that show up for the match, less than five usually shoot it. Usually a couple of the same ones that want to see how they are progressing.

As far as sandbagging goes, I dont even post what class people are anymore, just the division. Stopped the class thing early this year and nobody really cares, or has yet to say anything.

We give out honors/prizes/free match cards to those that shoot the lowest total points down, help with set-up, SO, ect...

[postal]

page 52 rule SHOOTER RESPONSABILITIES

#7obtain a valid classification and maintain it by shooting the classifier at least once every (12) months (except master class shooters)

page 71 CONTESTANT RESPOSNABILITIES

#2 shoot the 90 round classifier match to the best of his ability. the classifier may be re-shot as frequently as desired as an attempt to raise your classification

one would think that this would be impossible to interprete that you could go down in classification, but i guess not, masters do not have to shoot it because they obviously cannot go up any further

i will admit there are a few, and only a few rules that could be confusing, but none i have seen in this thread, a rule book such as this can be interpreted several ways, as with any book, who is to blame every time some nutjob misinterprets the bible?, certainly not god or those who wrote it, the blame goes to the person who misread it, i have seen md's that do not know the rules {not you cof}, and many so's that are unaware of scoring, and pe infractions, but i do not blame the rules, it is their fault for having their own head up their butts, and not understanding what is written

it has been almost one year since the "new" rule book was introduced, so there is no longer any "new" rules, if you have not read the rule book {all 82 pages} in one year period of time it is not the books fault, i do find some try to make it difficult by claiming the rules are not written correctly because they do not agree with them

[jkelly]

They do not check cards at nationals, they apply "big boy rules" and figure people will do the honorable thing.---Ted Murphy

But they check everything else figuring you won't.

who is to blame every time some nut job misinterprets the bible?---postal

Too easy!

Respectfully,

jkelly

Edited January 1, 2006 by jkelly

[jkelly]

I just wanted to clarify that Bill Wilson has indicated in the past that he does not draw a salary from IDPA.---Greg Jones

Has Mr. Wilson ever publicly accounted for the funds received by IDPA? If not, then we couldn't know whether Mr. Wilson benefits directly or indirectly from IDPA funds.

Respectfully,

jkelly

[Greg Jones]

Has Mr. Wilson ever publicly accounted for the funds received by IDPA? If not, then we couldn't know whether Mr. Wilson benefits directly or indirectly from IDPA funds.

Respectfully,

jkelly

To my knowledge, there is no public record of the financial activity of IDPA. All we have is Bill's word that he does not draw a salary, and I have no reason to believe that is not true. Bill has publicly stated that IDPA does reimburse him for some (unspecified) expenses, so one could say that is a benefit.

[postal]

who started i.d.p.a.?

why would it be a crime if he benefited from it?

the statement that he doesn't draw a salary may be correct, he could still share profit from dividends, and if he does he is entitled to it, after all it belongs to him doesn't it?

[Duane Thomas]

If the classifier must be shot once a year by every one but mater class shooters then it implies that you could go up or down in classification.

IDPA - indeed every shooting sport of which I'm aware - has always been run under the understanding that you'll always retain the highest classification you'ver ever attained. Kind of like, in the military, once you're a rifle Expert you always wear the Expert badge on your uniform, even if you didn't qualify Expert on your last range fire.

[shred]

Polite Mod Request: please lay off the Bill & general IDPA-bashing and discuss the topic at hand, thanks.