Airic Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 How exactly do you guys become a "gunsmith"? Take a class? Tinker until you figure it out? Learn from someone else? You gunsmiths out there tell me how you came to be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDELLCUSTOM Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 (edited) I think the best way to get started would be to take a class or just work with a competent gunsmith that is willing to or has the time to teach you the trade. I've been gunsmithing for almost 20 years now and have never taken a gunsmithing class or even a machinist course. I am completely self taught and i basically got the interest in guns when i was very young. I have a long history in drag racing, first with motorcycles then cars and built all my own engines, transmissions. I've always liked the challenge of figuring out how something worked and i figure if someone else can do it, so can i. Building a gun is just like building a racing engine, just on a smaller scale,you must understand the function of each component. I do not suggest that people work own their own guns unless they can fully understand how all the parts of a gun work together in a safe and properly built assembly. I wish i could find a gunsmith that i could hire to help me with my workload but my problem is that i am so particular about how my guns are put together i just can't trust anyone but myself to do the job. I've gone through some top notch machinists to try to teach them the trade but the reality is that a machinist is not a gunsmith, they're two completely different things. There is a fairly long learning curve in this business and i still to this day find something new or different quite frequently. Edited December 29, 2005 by BEDELLCUSTOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Dan I thought you had to be born a masochist and then deal with poor quality always out of stock parts and tight deadlines, unreasonable customers, for little money. Then you retire. The best gunsmiths have a knack for doing just what you said. Understanding how and why. Funny my gunsmith used to be a crew chief on a Top Fuel dragster. I help him with my stuff and love to use the phrase he coined "drop in fit" Yea you buy it, then drop in on your smith and have him fit it up correctly. He learned a lot from John Nowlin and the school of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Don't forget The Blood Ritual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 They have a secret society that is fillied with all kinds of perverted things. They have a "Don't ask, Don't tell" rule. No really. When I was up at Dans and he was showing me a few things he became very nervous when I would attempt what he had just taught me. He is a perfectionist, which is good but also his downfall. He has a hard time trusting anyone to do anything. But this is also why he is backlogged with orders. He did let me use the air hose pretty often though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDELLCUSTOM Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Bill, i have talked to many other gunsmiths over the years and it is amazing how much we have in common, especially so many having backgrounds in racing or very mechanical fields. most gunsmiths are good problem solvers because of the large diversity in firearms and the challenges they present. I tried to teach Paul W a few things while he was here but his amazement with the airhose and my papertowel dispenser kept him busy for hours so i don't think he had a lot of potential for retention. it's also a good thing he always wears that hockey helmet because he tends to bump into things quite frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiledviking Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 but his amazement with the airhose and my papertowel dispenser kept him busy for hours so i don't think he had a lot of potential for retention. it's also a good thing he always wears that hockey helmet because he tends to bump into things quite frequently. LOL! I am thinking about taking a class on 1911s. Being a total gear head and having worked on cars, engines and etc for most of my life, I might actaully be able to retain some of it... Anyone know of classes offered in California? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 I attended a JC in Trinidad Co. I have an AAS. Degree ( Gunsmithing), I graduated in 1983, Opened my own shop for a few years. I got tired of fixing $50.00 22 rifles. Now I just work on my own firearms. The ATF made it real hard a few years back to renew the FFL. I had a buddy of mine get sued by a customer, due to a trigger job that failed. Put him right out of business. The attorneys were lining up for that one. Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Precision Designs Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 (edited) Bill, i have talked to many other gunsmiths over the years and it is amazing how much we have in common, especially so many having backgrounds in racing or very mechanical fields. most gunsmiths are good problem solvers because of the large diversity in firearms and the challenges they present. I tried to teach Paul W a few things while he was here but his amazement with the airhose and my papertowel dispenser kept him busy for hours so i don't think he had a lot of potential for retention. it's also a good thing he always wears that hockey helmet because he tends to bump into things quite frequently. There is a lot of truth here. Many "gunsmiths" began their career elsewhere, but their affinity for things "mechanical" and their love for firearms drew them to tinker with guns. The rest is history, or in some cases "his-stories". Just kidding. It takes a lot of practice under a big magnifying glass and the desire to pay yourself $0.50 an hour to be a "genuine" gunsmith. Myself, I started when I was a kid, playing with toy guns and taking them apart to see how they worked, and then the "tricky" part: putting them back together. I did the same with toy "wind-up" cars, trying to get them to run faster: this is what eventually sided me with the "custom" part of 'smithing. Of course being "mechanichally mesmerized" drove me into other things like cars (real ones!) and race boats building, etc. Eventually I even thought that studying mechanical engineering might quench my thirst. But it was only the beginning. My father used to design and build exotic wood furniture, and this gave the opportunity to train with wood and metal "fabricating machinery" such as lathes, milling machines, surface grinders, welders, etc. from an early age. Later on, in 1975 I opened my first "sporting goods store" in New Jersey, which also happened to sell guns. Soon enough, people were bringing in guns for repair, Since earlier I had taken a couple of "correspondence school gunsmithing courses" while studying engineering,I thought I was ready. I did alright. By this time I had met Austin Behlert, whose shop was about an hour away from my store, and would often go over and "pester" him, along with Frank Ercolino, "Mr. Rohr", and "Marcos in Patterson" (although Marcos said that I was teaching him!) I also learned a lot from Carl Mustra, who taught me how to chop and channel Browning HP's, etc. (I taught him how to TIG weld!), and worked for me for a short while. Ah, memory lane!!! But the "real" anwer as to what makes you into a "gunsmith"? I guess what you are really asking is what makes you into a "Professional Gunsmith" ? The answer is that somebody chooses to make it worth your while and pays for your work, so that you can afford to continue playing with guns. Of course, you have the "parts changer/installers" gunsmiths who do mostly repair work. Then you have the other kind, the ones that need to have their heads examined by a competent psychiatrist, because they like to do "custom work". Oy, vey!!!!! Edited December 29, 2005 by Radical Precision Designs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 To tell you guys the truth, I made waaaaaay more money building and checkering rifle stocks, Than I ever did doing repairs. But as most of you guys know, You can only look through an Optiloop for so long! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Ditto raceing. Building big block chevy's in the 60"s & 70"s & street racein them & still do when I can. Owened gun shop 25 yrs. & self taught. Worked with Virgil Tripp from 93 to 96 & learned a GREAT deal. Had to throw away bucket's of f**ked up parts while learing. It is not a fast profession to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Benny, I agree!!! . If you are not willing to ruin some metal to learn, You shouldn't play gunsmith!!!! Ivan " Measure twice, Cut once" Richard Chaback, My machine shop instructor! ( Tryed to listen!!! ) I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 I just thought of something! Yes I know that is dangerous! I think the proper question should be" How exactly do PISTOL smiths become pistols smiths" DUH! I can tell you I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Scientist Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 How did I become a smith???? I am still figuring on that one.You kind of get a push into it. Most I talk to start out on there own stuff doing repairs modifing.Then one day you wake up with a shop full of mills and lathes and people from all over the country calling on you to do work. At some point reputation forces you either into the light or to fade into the Darkness I also was involved in Racing . My father owned a racing shop where I learned the art of the port and the need for polish.I think he had me do it because it was so darn messy. I learned the lathe at 10 and the mill a few years latter in tech school.I have no formal training in Gunsmithing or degrees but I can see in my mind every action I choose to work on. I am totaly self taught. There was no one to ask in the Glock world that even thought what I wanted to do was worth while or even how to go about it. For the aspiring smiths out there work on your own guns and perfect your craft and your formula on your own nickle this will save you a lot of headaches and your future reputation. There are machinists and there are Gunsmiths who are forced to machine .I fall some where in the middle closer to the latter. Johnnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Don't forget liability insurance!!!!!! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Precision Designs Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Don't forget liability insurance!!!!!!Ivan Liability Insurance? Is that what I 've been paying? I thought that was just "blackmail" to let me work in peace. Maybe all 'smiths should "engrave" a disclaimer, like the parts manufacturers do! I am much more interested into ""Reliability Insurance", and that's the one which makes your shop's reputation. Actually I am very impressed with many of our crop of "IPSC" shooters. Quite a few of them don't cease to amaze me with their savvy and inventiveness. I learn a heck of a lot from them every day. Not only from their mistakes, but from their solutions to every day quirks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 I also have a background in Hot Rodding going back to my high school days and Flat Head fords. Went in the military expressed an interest in the Armoryand worked in them all over the place mostly in Southeast Asia. My main job was as a construction Mechanic and I work on auxillary equipment. Worked on teletype machines and allways had guns around,after a life time in the service I took up Uspsa Shooting seen that a lot of shooters where having problems so I got an FFl and started in as a side line, I Dont rely on the gunsmithing as my primary income my retirement and pension are my main source military and the VA has been and is good to me. My first experience with custom guns was in the military for the pistol team in the phillipines in 1965, and Ive been at it every since. I had the training on manual type end mills and lathes in the military. I listened to the other gunsmiths over the years and have experimented with used parts and ruined some new parts. Im allways up for learning from someone!!! Taking a machine shop course at a trade school would be a good way to start and ask questions see if ya can find a smith who will let you work with him/her to pick up the basics and before you put a tool to a gun think it through write down what you think the end result will be and if you arent sure research it Jim Sailors Custom Oh yah, With what Benny said on messed up parts, I love to hear from a new customer this question " what do you do if ya mess something up?" and I pull out a box from under the bench and show him/her= its a blast to see the look on the face. He He Jim Sailors Custom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDELLCUSTOM Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) it is amazing how much gunsmiths have in common and on the way up we all have acquired a few buckets full of scrapped parts. jim anglin, I hate to make you feel your age but when you were in the Phillipines in 1965 with the military i was probably taking my second dump of the day in my diapers, I was 2 years old. I also spent time in the Army but that didn't happen until 1980. as far as flathead fords go, you can have em'. a buddy of mine had a 51 ford with the old 239 flathead v-8 dual water pump motor in it and if they ever got the least bit hot they'd crack. i can't tell you how many engine blocks we went through. benny, glad to hear you're a chevy man too and you know there is no substitute for cubic inches, bring your BIG BLOCK or go home! Edited December 31, 2005 by BEDELLCUSTOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkbrd Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 I always thought that you had to learn to live on top raman noodles & macoroni and cheese for years while destroying your own good parts all the while trying to convince your wife that the mill, laith and 400 other tools are a good tax writeoff. Then you may just earn that 1/1000 chance of getting a good name and rep. that will carry you on to hamburgers that you can pick up with your machine oil impregnated cut up hands, while you kill yourself making pretty things for picky people that think $12 an hour is good money for blue coller labor. We all owe a debt of gratitude for the artists like Dan, Bennie, Jim, ext. ext. ext. that chose follow there passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 (edited) I just wanna know how many tiny springs you find in the corners of the room when you move... Ever gone hunting for the only spring you have? Who makes a flashlight for that? SA Edited January 1, 2006 by Steve Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 OH! by the way dan, just killed a nice 130 class 8 pointer & 3 hog's at the lease. What a great x-mas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Dan: Had a lot of fun with them flat heads I had a chopped and chaneled 1937 lincoln Zephyer forget what cubic inches it was my Dad and I built it at the time it was as good as it gets,used water pumps from tank engines and the crank also . It was a cutey. 10 four on the dumps =Im proud of you youngins. Ya all do good work.!! 62 years young I am 10 grand kids and one great Grand Daughter. Benny My boy got two bucks and a doe this year went down to Missouri and hung out with him, he lives 2 1/2 block from where I went to High School in Faucett Missouri. You all take care and have a Happy New Year. Jim/Pa Sailors Custom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDELLCUSTOM Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 benny , you just had to tell me that didn't you, now i gotta get back out there and try to top that but since the season is over here, i'll have to try to take one with my truck. steve, i have a large magnetic mat that i made from a sign like you would stick on the side of a truck for advertising, i cut it out to about a 6"x6" square and attached it to a telescopic stick and when i drop little pieces and parts on the floor or under one of the benches i just sweep it around down there and find all kinds of missing stuff. jim, you may have me by a few years but just remember you're only as old as you feel and today is new years day and after last night i believe i woke up this morning at the age of 86. matt,(blkbrd) thanks for the nice words and i'm glad you mentioned the macaroni and cheese, it's on sale today at the local grocery store i can get 3 boxes for $1.00 so with the $10.00 i made on the last gun i built i'll be eating like a king for the next month! you know i still can't figure out why since me and chuck became partners that he eats alot more steak and i get the macaroni & cheese buffet 5 times a week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 Dan, AHH so that's what Chuck meant when he told me he had searched long and hard for exactly the right gunsmith to do this project. He didn't want anyone cutting into to the gravy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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