9mm Reload With 147 Vs 115 Gr Blazer

[Clay1]

Ok, a couple of times a year I tend to ask myself this same question. To this point I have been very happy shooting 9mm Luger, Blazer 115 grain factory loads. I pay about $110/1000 delivered from Natchez.

I have been thinking of trying a 147 grain load. If I shoot a 147 JHP Zero with tightgroup powder I can reload them for about $80/1000. My question is do you feel it is worth it to pull the handle 1000 times for $30, plus chasing brass at the range? Yes, you have to pick up the aluminum cases but picking them up to reload is more than just sweeping them into the junk.

I would use the ammo for USPSA and IDPA matches.

My answer to this in the past has always been NO, it's not worth the $30. Now I am not thinking so much of cost savings, but whether or not the 147 is superior for steel, USPSA poppers / plates.

Even if the cost was the same do you think the 147 grain load is better for this game?

Thanks,

Rick

Edited December 20, 2005 by Clay1

[lneel]

Yes, I think it is worth it. It's not so much the recoil as the muzzle blast from the 1150fps rounds that gets me. I reload a FMJ 147gr Precision Delta along with VV N310 at about 875fps and it is so smooth it seems like I have extra time to be sure I have a great sight picture. I gave away all my Blazer after shooting this load for the first time.

Lee

[Dave Marques]

I second lneel-yep.

Easiest way to test this is to get someone who is loading 147's now-Try them, if you don't see a difference keep with the Blazers-but keep going back and trying the 147's-when you see the difference-then make the move-I've shot 115's up thru the 147's-the bullet wt makes a difference, but the BIG difference is the powder-I use N320, lneel is using N310-WOW!!!!

If you want a cheap alt-W231 & N320 are almost exactly the same-charge-wise and feel-wise.

Dave M.

[Clay1]

Thanks Dave and Lee for the responses. I've read through many of the posts in the reloading forum for 9mm. I even saved a few threads to my computer. The V V powders seemed to be very sensitive to pressures with slight powder weight changes so I am not interested in loading N310. I see where Steve Anderson / Matt Burkett and many other shooters use the V V, but they are not for me. Tight Group is 60% of the cost of V V and the pressures are much less.

I have shot a few of the 147 mouse loads and they are sweet. I guess that I am so use to the Blazer stuff. The snap of the 140 pf load through my G34 seems to aid in returning the muzzle to the target quickly. They are a quick snap instead of a push.

One of my other concerns has to do with trajectories. The 115 Blazers shoot flat for me out to 50 yards. I have shot USPSA targets at 100 yards with them. I think that a 900'/sec load has to have more of an arch to the trajectory. The A zone is a long target though and probably won't make much difference but would be interested in finding out what you think.

[Dave Marques]

Most USPSA matches don't deal with targets out past 40-50yds and there are very few really past 15-20 yds-so you are right-but it does not matter.

Actually N320 is one of the most consistent powders I know of (very linear for the 9x19 loads I tested). It meters well and if you are seeing large changes in pressure-something else is going on (please be careful!). VV310, 320 or Winchester 231 should be safe to use BUT you should develop your load based on chrono data from YOUR gun and not just published data or word of mouth-A good example is a friend of mine took my load data and ran with it. He loaded a few hundred rounds before he chrono'd-he was at a 179 PF (LTD) with a load that was a 169PF in my gun!!!!

Hope this helps-

Dave M.

[Newguy]

You missed a few steps: drop-checking the loaded rounds, pulling bullets that won't fit the gauge, and sorting out Glock brass and crap like Amerc. Although it's sometimes worth it, reloading is a hassle.

From everything I've heard the 147 gt. 9mm load is sweet, but when I reload again it'll be a major load for Lim and L-10, where the biggest price difference is. I went to production to take a break from reloading. For me, it's not worth the hassle to load for production when factory ammo is so cheap. But then again, some people enjoy reloading.

[Vlad]

Actually 147's are suprisingly flat shooting. Those 40 yard shots (which Dave Marques keeps on making me take by selecting all the long range classifiers in the book) are not something I worry about. Maybe I aim for the upper half of the A zone, but thats it. By contrast, I shot my single stack with 230gr ball ammo at a recent match and I had to remember that if plates are at 20 yards, need to aim just a hair above them.

I load 3.3gr of TG under 147gr Zero's and I love them compared with 115's (factory OR reloads). Combined with a heavy steel gun, there is not much of a muzzle rise. I see it, but a lot of people swear that my gun just stays flat.

[Clay1]

I guess that I should have said earlier that I will be shooting this out of a G34. I've spent a good portion of tonight reading threads back to early 2004 from "reloading and load data 9mm/38"

I see many people like Titegroup, but some think it is dirty. One of the things that I like about the Blazer round is that I think that it is very clean. V V 310 is not an option for me for pressures. V V 320 is out on costs alone. Titegroup vs. 231, which is cleaner to shoot in a 147 grain minor load?

I see the Zeros beat out Montana Golds for the number one slot in production on the Nationals equipment survey this year. Do you think more people are shooting the FMJ or the JHP?

One note, I'm not looking for the Uber mouse load. If more people are shooting these in Production than anything else there is probably a reason to the madness.

On the topic if I like to reload or not. I don't. I shot 10,000 rounds in a season shooting a shotgun and pulling a handle on a Mec 9000 G and that fixed my reloading interests. I have all of the loading equipment, but don't load for 9mm at this time. This year I will finish up at about 11,000 rounds. Not really a lot compared to many on these boards, but more than just a weekend shooter. I will be shooting more in 2006 and not less.

Rick

[boo radley]

I guess that I should have said earlier that I will be shooting this out of a G34. I've spent a good portion of tonight reading threads back to early 2004 from "reloading and load data 9mm/38"

Rick

Hiya Rick -- as another data point, I have a huge stack of 9mm 147 RN Zero's (not JHP) sitting on top of about 3.5gr of n320. I haven't shot Production yet, but plan to, at some point, with my G34.

This round is very soft, and pretty darn accurate. My G34 is finicky as all hell, and until this point had really just liked CCI Blazers, but the 147gr bullet shoots accurately, too, as everyone says. 320 burns incredibly cleanly too, and there's not that stunning muzzle flash I notice with the 115gr Blazers.

IM(very)HO, I believe it provides a competitive advantage, though how great is difficult to quantify.

That said, if I had to do it over, I found loading 9mm pretty painful. I use a Dillon SDB, and it's terrific for .40 and .45, but I had some problems with 9 -- first, the cases are smaller and a bit tedious to manipulate. Second, many tended to stick to the powder die. Third, because of "1" and "2", sometimes a few specks of powder would fly out of the case, when the shell plate indexed.

Btw, once-fired (or purported "once-fired") is so cheap from eBay, "brassman",etc., that I don't see much point in picking it up, except to keep the range clean.

Anyway -- the whole time I was loading the 3k rounds, I kept thinking, "Hmm....$115/k delivered to my door...."

[Vlad]

Titegroup CAN seem a bit dirty but its mostly so in the lower pressure rounds like .45. The higher the pressure (9mm, .40) the cleaner it burns. Even at its dirtiest it isnt that dirty. It leaves a VERY fine residue which doesnt cake or gum up your gun. I shoot 1000 rounds between cleanings with no problems. You may notice some of this residue around your muzzle, and I think this is why people think its dirty, but I actually found TG to be a clean powder, cheap, and very pleasent to shoot.

Zeros are cheaper the MG which I think its why the are prefered. I prefer the Zero JHP round because of the bullet base design which makes it VERY easy to sit in the case.

To me the $30 per 1000 savings is worth it, but even if the price was the same, I would still load for the different feel and performance.

[kevin c]

...I have been very happy shooting 9mm Luger, Blazer 115 grain factory loads...

...Yes, you have to pick up the aluminum cases but picking them up to reload is more than just sweeping them into the junk...

Please forgive me if I'm wrong here, but it sounds like you are planning to reload the Blazer cases?

I think that they are Berdan primed, and basically not reloadable with the equipment available here.

[Flexmoney]

Rick,

Feel is subjective. Performance is measurable.

Set up some drills that remove variables (like the draw), and test the loads head-to-head. See what works for you.

[Dave Marques]

Like what flex said:

Don't sweat the powder too much-see if one of your local buddies can give you some 231 and TG to try. Choose for yourself which is better.

Also GENERALLY speaking ..... for a given head wt/brand a JHP should be more accurate than a solid point. There should be more bullet bearing surface on the rifling, but if I got a great deal on jsp's or fmj's I would n't think twice about switching-I don't really notice a difference.

Good luck!!

Dave M.

[driver8M3]

a couple of points:

9mm ammo is fairly cheap, especially if youre using blazer. so reloading 9 isnt going to save you a fortune. but i dont think most who reload 9 do it for the financial benefits...we do it for the shooting benefits (at least i do).

if you dont want to chase brass, dont. you can buy used 9 brass for about a penny each. thats not going to break you financially. but i've found that saving them really isnt much trouble.

my load is zero 147 jhp, 3.0 VVN310 (pf~130)...never had a problem with properly calibrated steel.

i used to shoot blazer exclusively b/c of cost. but after trying a friends VVN310 load i decided i needed to start reloading. there was just a HUGE difference between the two for me. i miss those slick aluminum cases (wish they were available for reloading), but that's all i miss. i'd be very surprised if you could shoot better with blazer over a softer shooting load.

Even if the cost was the same do you think the 147 grain load is better for this game?

yes.

Please forgive me if I'm wrong here, but it sounds like you are planning to reload the Blazer cases?

I think that they are Berdan primed, and basically not reloadable with the equipment available here.

i think what he meant was he still has to pick up his blazer cases when he cleans up...but he's trashing them, not reloading them.

[Clay1]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I put the part in here about picking up the Blazer empties so no one thought that I just littered the range with my trash. No I am not thinking or reloading a case that wasn't designed to be reloaded.

Found some good prices on Zero bullets from Angus Hobdell on the web and am just about tempted to buy some Vhit N320 (Yes, I know that I said it was too expensive before, but I want clean) or Titegroup and see what happens.

Can someone give me a link for brass at a penny a pop? I've seen it closer to $20/1000 and then you have to add shipping. I am considering just buying some Blazer Brass and then keeping the once fired for my reloads. It's only about $10 more / 1000 and all the headstamps will be the same.

Thanks again,

Rick

[DougCarden]

Rick, try brassmanbrass.com. for cheap 9mm brass, I think it is $12 per k, then add shipping, same as .40 brass.... It sounds like if you look on Ebay you might find it cheaper as well. Try the VV320 or even VV310. All the load data you need is already on the reloading forums. You might find that once you load some 147 heads up and fire a mag that you will go....."Damn"

Having said that, you might find that you like the snappier recoil. I shot several Local matches last year shooting 125jhps with TG @ 130PF, and then reshooting with 147gr with TG @130PF, and I kicked my own A$% with the 147gr load. You will have to decide what you like and want. That is the cool thing about reloading.....Good luck, DougC

[Harmon]

147 grain rainiers and win 231.

federal small primers. loaded to 1.145

it doesnt matter to me if its cheaper or not to reload...its the quality of the load and the fact i enjoy reloading.

even with CCI blazers at 3.69 a box, i still rather load my own.

[Clay1]

Ok, I'm going to do it this time around; you guys convinced me to at least try. I called Angus Hobdell and bought 3000 of the 147 gr. JHP Zero bullets.

I'm going to buy N320, clean is better than dirty and it comes out to about $5 / 1000 more than using Titegroup.

I bought some range brass from a fellow shooter tonight. About 35 pounds of brass for a whopping $10- (He is a friend)

On the primers, I am going to try the Federal Match Small Pistol primer.

I won't say that I will shoot them for the whole season, but we are going to "give it a go" as they say. Thanks for the help and the words of encouragement.

Rick

[ampleworks]

You're missing the point though on buying 115s versus reloading 147s. Normal 115 price is $6.00/50, 147 WWB is $7-8 per box. Using 147s, you're getting into an additional cost there over 115s.

That's the only reason I reload 9mm 147s, I can load it for $4.31/50 verus $7.48/50 buying it. That includes buying brass. If I need 115s for a subgun or AR, I just buy it.

Edited December 23, 2005 by ampleworks

[Jeremiah]

You're missing the point though on buying 115s versus reloading 147s. Normal 115 price is $6.00/50, 147 WWB is $7-8 per box. Using 147s, you're getting into an additional cost there over 115s.

That's the only reason I reload 9mm 147s, I can load it for $4.31/50 verus $7.48/50 buying it. That includes buying brass. If I need 115s for a subgun or AR, I just buy it.

Harmongreer? Where do you get Blazers at $3.69 per box?

[Clay1]

Use to be able to get it from Academy Sports for $3.86. I looked at their web site just now and it looks like they raised the price to $4.86 / box.

http://www.academy-sports.com/index.php?pa...5-3509&start=12

They won't ship ammo. I tried to order from them and have it mailed to me. If you have an Academy Sports close to you, that would be your best bet. If not, Wal-mart and Blazer Brass can be had at $5.99 / box.

Rick

[Jeremiah]

That's really something. My wholesale distributor has it for $4.95 per box if you buy a case of it. So you can see my surprize when someone quoted a box for a whole dollar less than dealer cost.

[roby]

weve been buying blazer out here for 3.86/box for nearly a year!

[Clay1]

Roby, is that price still current and is it from Academy Sports? I was not surprised to see them raise the prices on their web site since they were so much cheaper than the competition.

Can you verify that it is a current price and the location, thanks.

Rick