Teach me about double stack 1911 magazines.

[AngelDeVille]

I have glanced longingly at double stack 1911's at competitions, and I'm considering a 110mm magazine 9mm for an edc pistol, and would look at a larger frame/slide and maybe a different caliber for competition in the future.

 

First off what are double stack magazines usually called?  I have seen the "STI" term being used.

 

I get the different lengths, 110mm, 120mm, 170mm, etc fit different frames.

 

are there any brands/types that are not compatible with each other?

 

I also get there are 9mm, 40, and 45 acp magazines.

 

any insight this group has will be greatly appreciated, and used mostly for good, and maybe a little evil as long as it's funny.

 

 

 

 

[Joe4d]

actually quite a few over the years,, some were not compatible due to length or mag pad or funnel design. Some were just completely different.
Of top of head some very different designs.. The Para Ordnance, use in PO , Remingtons, and some Rock island or Armsoce clones.
Then there is the STI modular frame style,, more common today used in STI's SVI, SPS and some other imports.
No idea about BUL,,, and at one time Wilson combat had a doublestack frame with its own mags.
Then there is the Caspian design which is similar to Tanfoglio mags.

[AngelDeVille]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

actually quite a few over the years,, some were not compatible due to length or mag pad or funnel design. Some were just completely different.
Of top of head some very different designs.. The Para Ordnance, use in PO , Remingtons, and some Rock island or Armsoce clones.
Then there is the STI modular frame style,, more common today used in STI's SVI, SPS and some other imports.
No idea about BUL,,, and at one time Wilson combat had a doublestack frame with its own mags.
Then there is the Caspian design which is similar to Tanfoglio mags.

 

 

well carp... I figured it wouldn't be simple....

[Dicktater_Pete]

It would only make too much sense for an industry to consolidate on a common spec.  Instead, you get things like the ar10 and its variants.   

 

I'm pretty new to all these super tube mega magazines, whatever they're termed.

[MikeBurgess]

19 hours ago, Dicktater_Pete said:

It would only make too much sense for an industry to consolidate on a common spec.  Instead, you get things like the ar10 and its variants.   

 

I'm pretty new to all these super tube mega magazines, whatever they're termed.

the double stack 1911 based pistol world is more standardized than just about any other. look at 9mm service pistols, there are gun companies that have half a dozen non compatible magazines just in their own product lines.

[MikeBurgess]

On 3/1/2023 at 12:31 PM, AngelDeVille said:

I have glanced longingly at double stack 1911's at competitions, and I'm considering a 110mm magazine 9mm for an edc pistol, and would look at a larger frame/slide and maybe a different caliber for competition in the future.

 

First off what are double stack magazines usually called?  I have seen the "STI" term being used.

 

I get the different lengths, 110mm, 120mm, 170mm, etc fit different frames.

 

are there any brands/types that are not compatible with each other?

 

I also get there are 9mm, 40, and 45 acp magazines.

 

any insight this group has will be greatly appreciated, and used mostly for good, and maybe a little evil as long as it's funny.

 

 

 

 

step 1 find the gun you want to use,

step 2 buy mags that fit it.

 

to over simplify things 

STI now Staccato, Atlas, Infinity, Night Hawk, 99+% Custom Builders all use the original 2011 type magazines 

 

on the lower end you will find the Para Ordinance type one piece framed guns (Rock Island, Remington) use a a different but very similar to 2011 magazine only the mag catch is different

 

then there are the Caspian framed guns, unless you are looking for one or just happened to trip over one you wont have to worry about it but they exist and have their own type of magazine that is similar to Tanfoglio 

 

now you mention a 110mm mag, here what I know about 2011 magazine sizes generally 

113mm you will need to find a gun that that mag fits, they are rare,

120s are a thing too, I believe Staccato makes guns with this size grip

126mm this is the flush fit in a regular full size grip 

140mm this is extended in a regular fill size grip and what you will see in Limited and Open divisions 

155mm popular in open division because more capacity but reload feels like a 140

170/171.25mm this is what you see in Open division race guns 

 

 

[MikeBurgess]

Oh I left out Bul, they use their own not quite compatible 2011 related magazine, I havent bothered to figure out what the difference is yet

[Joe4d]

anyone know what the early 90's Wilson COmbat guns used ? The had a full size 1911 double stack,, and I think a cdr sized. 45 ACP,, held 10 rounds.

[shred]

38 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

step 1 find the gun you want to use,

step 2 buy mags that fit it.

 

to over simplify things 

STI now Staccato, Atlas, Infinity, Night Hawk, 99+% Custom Builders all use the original 2011 type magazines 

 

on the lower end you will find the Para Ordinance type one piece framed guns (Rock Island, Remington) use a a different but very similar to 2011 magazine only the mag catch is different

 

then there are the Caspian framed guns, unless you are looking for one or just happened to trip over one you wont have to worry about it but they exist and have their own type of magazine that is similar to Tanfoglio 

 

now you mention a 110mm mag, here what I know about 2011 magazine sizes generally 

113mm you will need to find a gun that that mag fits, they are rare,

120s are a thing too, I believe Staccato makes guns with this size grip

126mm this is the flush fit in a regular full size grip 

140mm this is extended in a regular fill size grip and what you will see in Limited and Open divisions 

155mm popular in open division because more capacity but reload feels like a 140

170/171.25mm this is what you see in Open division race guns 

 

 

 

SV uses a slightly moved mag catch slot vs OG STI and SVI 2011 mags.

Para mags won't fit a 2011 because the angle at the top where the stack transitions from double to single is too steep.   IDK if the current RIA & Remington mags are the same.  You can mod the mag catch slot on a 2011 mag to fit a Para frame but not the other way around.

 

But by and large 2011 mags are what you're most likely to find.

 

 

[texasdawg]

Bul mags are narrower at the top in the transistion area where they go thru the frame. They will fit my LSI 2011 frames and work, but my regular MBX mags wont fit in a Bul because they are too wide at the top. You can modify a Bul frame to accept regular MBX mags if your handy with a file or mill,,,

[AngelDeVille]

Looking at whiz-bang dubble stacks, I think I’m heading toward the Bul ultralight in 9mm, for a carry pistol.

 

I will look at a competition 4.25” or 5” in the future but not sure if I’d go .45.

 

If I stick with 9mm, I’ll go with Bul for sure.

 

their website is very unclear about what magazine they will send you if you order extras…

[Dicktater_Pete]

2 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

the double stack 1911 based pistol world is more standardized than just about any other. look at 9mm service pistols, there are gun companies that have half a dozen non compatible magazines just in their own product lines.

That's a very fair point.  The mass producers all want to make money on 40$ rebadged mecgars. 

 

Until recently, 2011's were primarily known for competition use.  Nowhere near the volume, but surely a profitable product nonetheless. 

[Digital_Boy]

On 3/1/2023 at 2:31 PM, AngelDeVille said:

I have glanced longingly at double stack 1911's at competitions, and I'm considering a 110mm magazine 9mm for an edc pistol, and would look at a larger frame/slide and maybe a different caliber for competition in the future.

 

First off what are double stack magazines usually called?  I have seen the "STI" term being used.

 

I get the different lengths, 110mm, 120mm, 170mm, etc fit different frames.

 

are there any brands/types that are not compatible with each other?

 

I also get there are 9mm, 40, and 45 acp magazines.

 

any insight this group has will be greatly appreciated, and used mostly for good, and maybe a little evil as long as it's funny.

 

 

 

 

A few observations from my learned experience:

STI = Strayer Tripp International, a company that originated in Georgetown, TX and pioneered what is now called the 2011 pistol platform. They manufacture/manufactured a variety of traditional 1911 and 2011 style pistols geared towards the defensive use, duty carry and competition markets.  They recently (past couple of years) changed their name to Staccato, and are continuing in that line of business.

 

Strayer parted ways with STI at some point and formed another company doing the same work with a man named Vought and formed SVI, Strayer-Vought International, solely focusing on building competition (IPSIC/IDPA style) 2011 style handguns, initially based in west Texas, and eschewing duty/carry oriented handguns altogether.

To the best of my knowledge, 2011 magazines all adhere to the same external and internal dimensions, locations for cut outs for magazine release, feed lip and follower geometry, etcetera, so an specific caliber magazine tube that is in spec should function normally in a 2011 handgun of the same caliber. So a Staccato branded magazine will work in Springfield Prodigy or an SVI handgun of the same caliber, and vice versa.  The entry of Springfield Armory Prodigy into the 2011 market is good news in that regard, since Springfield's intent is to bring the 2011 to the masses in a more affordable format, which means more magazines in circulation, which means an easing of the stinging sensation in the wallet whenever you purchase magazines for your Staccato or Pit Viper or multi-kilobuck Atlas 2011.


In my experience, the magazines themselves are incredibly robust, and should be rebuildable (swapping springs, followers and baseplates as they wear out) for many tens of thousands of rounds of usage. The thickness of the sheet metal that forms the body of the 2011 tubes is significantly thicker than your typical SIG, CZ, or Beretta magazine. 

[Norther]

On 3/6/2023 at 3:04 PM, Joe4d said:

anyone know what the early 90's Wilson COmbat guns used ? The had a full size 1911 double stack,, and I think a cdr sized. 45 ACP,, held 10 rounds.

Pretty sure those were the same as Bul. 

[Digital_Boy]

On 3/26/2023 at 10:17 PM, Norther said:

Pretty sure those were the same as Bul. 

I know Bul made the frames for the Kimber BP10-2 double stacks that they sold for awhile. I acquired a Bul M5 Government, which is pretty much the same thing with Bul markings instead.

[xrayfk05]

On 3/27/2023 at 1:23 AM, Digital_Boy said:

To the best of my knowledge, 2011 magazines all adhere to the same external and internal dimensions, locations for cut outs for magazine release, feed lip and follower geometry, etcetera, so an specific caliber magazine tube that is in spec should function normally in a 2011 handgun of the same caliber.

 

That is correct until you ram a SV/SPS magazine into a new(er) Bull, it will need some persuasion before it comes out again.

 

Some double stack 1911 will work fine with 2011 mags o.t.o.h., I've always used SV/SPS magazines with my older Para P189.9

[shred]

Couple clarifications in bold..

On 3/26/2023 at 6:23 PM, Digital_Boy said:

STI = Strayer Tripp International, a company that originated in Georgetown, TX and pioneered what is now called t

 

STI started in Austin, TX (very early frames had grips marked 'TRI' and 'CMC' and guns and frames through the mid 1990s have Austin TX engraving), then moved to Georgetown with another move upcoming to the Florence area.

 

Strayer parted ways with STI at some point and formed another company doing the same work with a man named Vought and formed SVI, Strayer-Vought International, solely focusing on building competition (IPSIC/IDPA style) 2011 style handguns, initially based in west Texas, and eschewing duty/carry oriented handguns altogether.

 

Mike Voigt (RIP), very good competition shooter, ex-USPSA President, all around pretty good dude.  They were outside of Dallas at the time.  Later as SV trended to Infinity, MV got sponsored by STI as a poke in the eye or something (I don't know the rest of the SV story that well).

To the best of my knowledge, 2011 magazines all adhere to the same external and internal dimensions, locations for cut outs for magazine release, feed lip and follower geometry, etcetera, so an specific caliber magazine tube that is in spec should function normally in a 2011 handgun of the same caliber. So a Staccato branded magazine will work in Springfield Prodigy or an SVI handgun of the same caliber, and vice versa. 

 

More recent SV mags have a different mag catch location than STI/Stacatto/Prodigy and those mags typically won't interchange without swapping parts or modifications.  Early STI mags sometimes are slightly wider than later ones and need fitting to clear later plastic grips.