Frame size questions

[Petrov]

Hey folks I can undersatand why N frames are popular. 8 shots pew pew pew lots of fun.

Why were the old accuracy built revolvers for PPC built on K frames? 

[Toolguy]

There were no L frames for most of that time.

[Petrov]

And N frames? Too big and 2 holes too many?

[MikeBurgess]

5 minutes ago, Petrov said:

And N frames? Too big and 2 holes too many?

no need to start with a more expensive starting point when you only need 6 shoots 

you will also find that lots of the old PPC guns were built on fixed sight frames, same reason if your not using the factory sights no need to pay more for a gun with them

[Petrov]

I see. Im trying to build a PPC gun on an N frame as my weekend relaxation gun and Im not sure that any were ever built on N frames.

[Toolguy]

There weren't any 8 shot N frames then, either. Lots of PPC guns have been built on N frames. I built myself a M625 45 ACP one with 6" slab barrel and Wichita Rib and a M29 44 Auto Mag one with a 5" comped slab barrel and a Wichita Rib. The 44 AM was used as a Bowling pin gun for many years. Both work great. The 44 AM is the one in my avatar.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Toolguy

[Petrov]

Not that I am that good of a shot to be able to tell but are the 38 special chambered model 10 K frames capable of smaller groups compared to 357 chambered N frames?

Shooting 38 special wad cutters that is.

[Toolguy]

The length of the chamber is irrelevant. The throat at the front of the chamber lines up the bullet before entering the barrel. What matters is - Proper chamber throat diameter, good forcing cone, no barrel constriction, good rifling, good muzzle crown, proper timing, good ammo.

[pskys2]

Most carried a K Frame size and the parts/gunsmithing perfected them.  The N Frames were too heavy for the very light loads used.  Six vs eight shots wasn't a factor at all.  I'm sure you could find a PPC N Frame Revolver someone did shoot in competition, just wasn't the ideal platform.

[Joe4d]

I am thinking for same reason 1911's , 03 springfields, and 98 Mausers were used as a base for most competition guns.
Cheap surplus platforms... Why buy new when you were gonna change alot of stuff anyways.

[Toolguy]

That's pretty much it. Most people used a K frame they already had or one they could get for cheap, or maybe a model 28 occasionally.

[Petrov]

I called around and asked, most folks that could do this either retired or are not interest but mostly retired. Are the new Pythons good is slow DA target shooting?

[Toolguy]

Clark Custom Guns would probably build you a PPC gun on a 627. The 627 with 8 shots is the one to get for one all around gun. You don't have to shoot all 8 every time. If you only need 6, like PPC, shoot 6 and reload, just like you would with a 6 shot gun. You still need to load the clips with 8 for reloading purposes. Then you also have a couple of spares. In case of a misfire, you can just pull the trigger again.

 

You will never get the really good DA trigger pull from a Colt or Ruger that you will from a Smith. Any of them can have a good SA trigger pull.

 

My PPC guns have either a Walther or Douglas slab barrel with 1 - 10 twist, Wichita Rib, and no underlug. Wichita doesn't make sight ribs any more, but you can get an Aristocrat TriSet rib that will do nicely.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Toolguy

[Petrov]

I called Clark and they told me to email their revolver smith. I did and I haven't heard anything back. Mojo, TK custom I tried a bunch of folks. When I was younger I always wanted one and now all these smiths that do PPC are dying or retiring. I should go get my prostate checked. 

[Toolguy]

Where are you located (approximately)? Maybe there is someone local that could help. There are still a few custom revo smiths that might do it. Andy Horvath comes to mind, but there are others.

[Vic]

I'd give a shout to Frank Glenn, bet he could handle your project. 

Glenn Custom in Phoenix 

[Petrov]

I spoke with Glenn maybe 30 minutes ago. He didnt want to touch the N frame.

[revoman]

Try Pinnacle High Performance Custom, Mark Hartshorne. Hard to get in but well worth the wait 

[Petrov]

1 hour ago, revoman said:

Try Pinnacle High Performance Custom, Mark Hartshorne. Hard to get in but well worth the wait 

That gentleman is not taking any orders. I also emailed aristocrat guy he gave me some names. 

Nobody wants to touch the n frame it appears. I have emailed clark and have not heard anything back for several days now so Im assuming that is a no go too.

[Pseudonym]

I think Mojo said he might be done building PPC guns in the future, I would certainly message him and ask. I would also give Clark's another call, you never know what might happen to an e-mail. I know as of 2 years ago Alan Tanaka was still taking work, but he was running a year backlog then. 

[Petrov]

22 minutes ago, Pseudonym said:

I think Mojo said he might be done building PPC guns in the future, I would certainly message him and ask. I would also give Clark's another call, you never know what might happen to an e-mail. I know as of 2 years ago Alan Tanaka was still taking work, but he was running a year backlog then. 

Mojo stopped making them like 2 months ago

I was told to email clay at clarks for PPC work.

 

Any way clarks doesnt seem to have 38 special n frame barrels. Where would I buy a good barrel blank for wad cutters 148 grain or so?

[Toolguy]

You can get a Green Mountain one from Brownell's for $36.99. It's a 9mm 1 in 10 twist, 17" long. You can get 2 barrels out of that blank. It doesn't tell the OD. You want to end up with 1.06" OD for a PPC rib. The part # is 371-000-039WB. GM has a reputation for good barrels.

 

Lothar-Walther has one that is 9.25" long and 1.19" OD. with a 1 in 9.8 twist. It's a 9mm/380 ACP  for $134.50.

 

You may wonder why you would want a 9mm barrel (.355) for a 38/357 (.357) gun? Mainly because they shoot very well, and then you have a wide selection of bullets to choose from when reloading. My open class Bianchi Cup 686 has a 6" Walther 9mm (.355) barrel. Fired from a ransom rest, it shoots 125 gr. 357 JHP in a 3/8" group at 25 yards and a little over an inch at 50 yards.

[pskys2]

2 hours ago, Toolguy said:

You can get a Green Mountain one from Brownell's for $36.99. It's a 9mm 1 in 10 twist, 17" long. You can get 2 barrels out of that blank. It doesn't tell the OD. You want to end up with 1.06" OD for a PPC rib. The part # is 371-000-039WB. GM has a reputation for good barrels.

 

Lothar-Walther has one that is 9.25" long and 1.19" OD. with a 1 in 9.8 twist. It's a 9mm/380 ACP  for $134.50.

 

You may wonder why you would want a 9mm barrel (.355) for a 38/357 (.357) gun? Mainly because they shoot very well, and then you have a wide selection of bullets to choose from when reloading. My open class Bianchi Cup 686 has a 6" Walther 9mm (.355) barrel. Fired from a ransom rest, it shoots 125 gr. 357 JHP in a 3/8" group at 25 yards and a little over an inch at 50 yards.

MMM sounds like this guy knows what he's doing?  I know he's got a few lathe's and such.

[Petrov]

Speaking of PPC things. What was the original intent of heavy barrels? To reduce recoil or to reduce sight picture disturbance when pulling the trigger in DA?

[Toolguy]

Probably some of both, but mostly to reduce movement of the gun during the trigger pull. I shot PPC for 20+ years, and tried just about everything during that time. It is definitely possible to have too heavy a gun. If it's too heavy, it will tire you out over the 150 round course of fire. By the end, you are just wishing it would all be over, rather than concentrating on shot placement. For me, the most weight I can comfortably deal with is a slab bull barrel and a sight rib, no underlug. The other part of that is to have the best possible DA trigger pull. I have a new drop in trigger kit that does that, but sadly, didn't have it all the years of PPC shooting.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Toolguy